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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / wanta know why we aint workin??
Poll Should Ross move this topic to the Off Topic Bar & Grill? (Closed)
Yes 8 57%
No 4 29%
Maybe 2 14%
- - By oklawelder (*) Date 01-22-2010 05:46
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html
Parent - - By J Hall (***) Date 01-22-2010 13:20
Apparently the hope and change was for Brazil.
Parent - - By oklawelder (*) Date 01-24-2010 00:30
after looking into it a little deeper , china buys their oil from brazil 100 percent of it so how much do you think the U.S.A will get ? From what i under stand of it that moron did it in executive session was not even voted on !  Now i know why they are fighting the audit the fed s bad
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-24-2010 02:10 Edited 01-24-2010 02:16
This is from the DOE (Department Of Energy) and it shows some interesting facts...

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Also, here is factcheck.org's counter claim of the claim that the Chinese will be the sole recipient of all petroleum exports from Brazil and htere's probably a counter claim to this as well :) :

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/bogus-brazilian-oil-claims/

Here's an interesting article from Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2742719920070727

Here's another article as well:

http://geology.com/energy/brazil/

So it seems the loans were to facilitate future increases in Brazilian exports to the US in exchange for the deep water drilling equipment that they need in order to reach the recently discovered huge subsalt deposits which potentially will result in the largest increase in non-OPEC oil importation to the US from any country in recent history since what was discovered in both Canada and Mexico which are currently our two largest importers of total petroleum products. At least that's what the Export Import Bank is gambling on...

What really irks me is what the Iraqi's are doing to us with respect to developing their own fields by giving more awards to other countries who did not contribute anywhere near the amount of sacrifice as we did to liberate them from Saddam!!! This is how they thank us??? Please don't ask me how I really feel about that!!! :( :( :(

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By oklawelder (*) Date 01-24-2010 06:12
With all due respect I looked at your links, the link refering to the allenged bank that made the loan it's for U.S Exporters as i understand ?
So lets see if I got this right , its like having a garage sale and giving your customers money when they walk up ,  so they will but your stuff ??

It is also a Government Bank not a private or U.S Corperate Bank ?
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-22-2010 17:12
Interesting little tidbit. We can't drill off our shores because folks think the rigs are un-sightly, ruin their views.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-23-2010 02:53
They would be too far ofshore to see from land anyway.
Don't You know that fossil fuel is the Boogie Man of the 21st century?
The Democrats are going to make oil obsolete anyway, no point in drilling for more of it.
Parent - - By Tyler1970 (***) Date 01-23-2010 02:55
There is alot of oil off the coast of Flordia. No one can drill off the coast of Flordia. But if someone was able to, it would bring alot of work.
Parent - By tighand430 (***) Date 01-23-2010 05:30
Be nice if they could do a horizontal drill onshore to reach the reserve but guess it's too far out there.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 01-26-2010 11:06
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4191683.stm
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html

Considering that Hutchison Whampia (chinese front company) has established a rather sizable port in the bahamas, and that sinopec/petrochina have signed exploration agreements with cuba, it's not a question anymore of if it's going to be drilled, but who is going to drill it.

While China ramps up to suck the oil out from under U.S. territorial waters, the bunny huggers and liberals scream about ocean views and snails.

Your right about one thing, it's going to mean a lot of jobs, but thanks to the liberal idiots, it's going to be chinese and cuban jobs, not American jobs.
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-24-2010 01:31
"They would be too far ofshore to see from land anyway"

You know that Dave, I know that but I have heard this is why there is some opposition. Probably a host of other "problems" Floridians don't like....roughnecks? Righands? LoL!
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-24-2010 08:15
Today on a segment of the "Glen Beck Show" on FOX (Fox Cable News) was the following:

"Today, even though President Obama is against off shore drilling for our country, he signed an executive order to loan 2 Billion of our taxpayers dollars to a Brazilian Oil Exploration Company (which is the 8th largest company in the entire world) to drill for oil off the coast of Brazil ! The oil that comes from this operation is for the sole purpose and use of  China  and NOT THE  USA  ! Now here's the real clincher...the Chinese government is under contract to purchase all the oil that this oil field will produce, which is hundreds of millions of barrels of oil".

We have absolutely no gain from this transaction whatsoever!

Wait, it gets more interesting.

Guess who is the largest individual  stockholder of this Brazilian Oil Company and who would benefit most  from this? It is American BILLIONAIRE, George Soros, who  was one of President Obama's most generous financial supporter during his campaign.

If you are able to connect the dots and follow the money, you are probably as upset as I am. Not a word of this transaction was broadcast on any of the other news networks!
more corupt politic

Below is the Wall street Journal article to confirm this. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html
Parent - By J Hall (***) Date 01-24-2010 13:48
George was probably a little short on available cash, what with all the money going to the healthcare debacle and funding of moveon.org, funding the Open Society movement and all. Plus, you can't forget how expensive it is to own the rights to the democratic party
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-24-2010 17:58
Hi Dave!

Nowhere in the Wall Stree Journal article does it say that ALL of the oil coming out of the Tupi field will be going exclusively to China... So where is Glen Beck getting that so- called factoid???

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-24-2010 18:16
Now Henry would'nt your interpetation of the word all constitute  that at least 60% of the oil would be going to china. I believe Dave used the word
sole in the amount of oil going to china. lol i couldn't help myself.

I havn't read the article but it seems to be business as usual at the white house IE reward your buddies.  It seems to me it makes no difference whos
in office democrats or republicians they both have the same agenda lining their own pockets.
Parent - By JLWelding (***) Date 01-24-2010 18:43
I swear he's a alein common folks wouldnt think like he does. Oh wait I think he is.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-24-2010 19:13 Edited 01-24-2010 19:38
Hi Joe!

Oh yeah! I don't disagree with what you're saying but. if one says something as extreme as what this Glen Beck phony is conjuring up, then at the very least, they should cite their source for cryin out loud instead of starting an exaggerated rumor or two... that's all I'm saying. ;) This what this Beck clown is quoted saying:

"The oil that comes from this operation is for the sole purpose and use of  China  and NOT THE  USA  ! Now here's the real clincher...the Chinese government is under contract to purchase all the oil that this oil field will produce, which is hundreds of millions of barrels of oil".

Then you have these facts from the DOE:

October 2009 Import Highlights:  December 30, 2009
Monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in October 2009 has been released and it shows that two countries exported more than 1.00 million barrels per day to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 65 percent of United States crude oil imports in October while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 85 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top five sources of US crude oil imports for October were Canada (1.858 million barrels per day), Mexico (1.015 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (0.938 million barrels per day), Venezuela (0.879 million barrels per day), and Nigeria (0.853 million barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Iraq (0.499 million barrels per day), Angola (0.437) million barrels per day), Algeria (0.327 million barrels per day), Colombia (0.282 million barrels per day), and Ecuador (0.174 million barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 8.566 million barrels per day in October, which is a decrease of (0.657) million barrels per day from September 2009.

Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in October, exporting 2.360 million barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2.356 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Mexico with 1.136 million barrels per day.

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country                        Oct-09   Sep-09   YTD 2009   Oct-08   YTD 2008
CANADA                        1,858     1,938      1,922        2,057      1,941
MEXICO                         1,015     1,124      1,114       1,256      1,182
SAUDI ARABIA                   938     1,031      1,014       1,435      1,516
VENEZUELA                       879    1,014      1,000        1,027      1,037
NIGERIA                            853      868         728          919         942
IRAQ                                499      428         460          577         652
ANGOLA                            437      401         471          527         504
ALGERIA                           327       419         277          305         313
COLOMBIA                        282       285         265          163         183
ECUADOR                          174      147         185           194         209
BRAZIL                             169      262         309           345         228
RUSSIA                            159      163         245           111         119
AZERBAIJAN                      134      101          68            125          73
KUWAIT                           104       246        178            235        199
CONGO (BRAZZAVILLE)         89       119         57              61          65
   
Total Imports of Petroleum (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country                       Oct-09   Sep-09   YTD 2009   Oct-08   YTD 2008
CANADA                       2,360     2,356     2,439        2,585     2,477
MEXICO                       1,136      1,271    1,252        1,434     1,299
VENEZUELA                     955      1,146    1,120        1,162     1,187
SAUDI ARABIA                 943      1,045     1,041       1,487     1,537
NIGERIA                         869         894       764          963     1,009
IRAQ                             499         428       462          577        652
ALGERIA                         491         641       491         558        542
ANGOLA                         450         414       482         539        514
RUSSIA                          385         486       584         394        476
COLOMBIA                      292         301       287         200        203
UNITED KINGDOM             266         295       255         386        242
VIRGIN ISLANDS               215         280       282         267        322
ECUADOR                       180          153       190         200        216
BRAZIL                          174          268       324         354        259
AZERBAIJAN                   134          101        68         125          74

So 354 thousand barrels per day X 365 = 129,210,000 barrels for YTD 2009 of Petroleum imported from Brazil to the USA! :)
So 309 thousand barrels per day X 365 = 112,785,000 barrels for YTD 2009 of crude oil imported from Brazil to the USA! :)
Note: The data in the tables above exclude oil imports into the U.S. territories... Meaning Puerto Rico, The US Virgin Islands, Guam, etc.

I hope This Beck character is getting the facts from reputable sources!!! :) :) :) Because Brazil is the #11 importer of Crude Oil and the #14 importer of Petroleum products to the USA!!! :) :) :) And they're moving up real fast on the list - CAPECHE GLEN???  Btw, how many people in here remember this Beck guy working for CNN??? Short memories!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-24-2010 20:06
Henry very interesting numbers  i had no idea that we got so much oil from canada. seems the cost of fuel should go down since canada is so much closer in terms of shipping
or does the cost of removing the oil from the sands in canada negate the shipping aspects?

Do you have a chart on how much china oil imports and from who?
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 01:07
Hi Joe!

No, but you could probably look it up online just as easily as I could... :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By strother (***) Date 01-25-2010 01:32
I'm conservative as they come but when comes to people like Glen Beck , well I had rather get my info from people who think before they rant. I think I will see if  Thomas Seoul ( probably mis- spelled his name) has an opinion on this matter.
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 01-24-2010 23:10
Henry - I don't follow.  Why would the fact that we import oil from Brazil necessarly have a bearing on the specific distribution of a new oil field in Brazil?
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 00:59
Well, I agree wholeheartedly with Ross that the loan will help put some oil field equipment manufacturers in the USA in a good position to make some money off of the purchases of the equipment Brazil needs from us in order to do the deep drilling that we have been able to be the leader in the field of making the technology available, and that's more than likely the peimary objective of the deal...

But there's more than meets the eye here and it's called "Back Room vDeals" that none of are privvy to unless of course, any of us were present when the deal was made, or were flies hang on the wall as well. :) What I would like to see is the proof that China is designated by Brazil to be the exclusive purchasers of all of the oil being developed out of the Tupi fields which I haven't seen any proof so far of this being a reality... The only thing I've heard and read is inuendo and rumor milling, and I don't play that game!!! :) :) :)

Tupi btw, is only just the tip of the proverbial iceberg if you read from the reports I posted up in the links contained in my earlier post... There's so much more out there off the coast of Brazil that's yet to be developed and the deep drilling equipment is key to developing the light sweet crude which is found already to be so deep that only the American technology which Brazil will be purchasing from us will be able to reach it and pump it out, not China...

If there's anyplace to be concerned regarding the Chinese being capable of cornering the future oil which will be developed soon is the newly found discoveries off the coast of Florida and very near Cuba whic the last time I checked is now being run by both Fidel and his Homo brother Raul!!! :( :( :(

We need to secure those fields right quick so that the Chinese don't go over there first by invoking eminent domain and the Monroe act so that the Chinese know that we mean business with respect to coming even close to exploiting those fields off the coast of Florida which more than likely hold more oil and petroleum products than Tupi and some other fields off Brazil combined!!! We need to tell Raul in no uncertain terms that there will NOT be a repeat of the Cuban Missile crisis over there this time!!!

Now I doubt that this will happen the way where it will end up being totally a win-win for the USA, but one thing that we can feel pretty good about is the very good probability that the administration presently running the show and calling the shots will only end up being a one hit wonder unless a miracle occurs and they suddenly morph into just about every line of crap they promised us they would be which would benefit all of us! ;) I'm very cynical with that type of wishful thinking!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ross (***) Date 01-25-2010 01:28
Here's a good explanation of how the Ex-Im Bank sees the deal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574360731208423244.html

The chair says "Ex-Im Bank does not make U.S. policy. In fact, our charter prohibits us from turning down financing for either nonfinancial or noncommercial reasons, except in rare circumstances including failure to meet our environmental standards."
Parent - By ross (***) Date 01-25-2010 00:28 Edited 01-25-2010 00:31
Let me be devil's advocate and point out that the Ex-Im Bank loan that is the subject of this topic is 100% designated to be spent on US labor and equipment for the Brazilian project. So it all goes to help employ US oil workers and buy US technology and rig stuff, which the US government will be able to collect income taxes on, in addition to getting the loan paid back with interest. Now, where the oil goes is another question, but I suppose really there's just this one giant oil market, so if more Brazilian oil comes onto the market, and the Chinese buy it all up instead of Canadian oil or North Sea oil or Iranian oil or whatever, does that hurt me or help me at the gas pump?
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-25-2010 00:41
Henry, for all I know He might have made it up. The WSJ article calls Petrobras oil company "state owned", Beck says Soros owns a bunch of it. Posibly He has a source other than the "Journal"? Perhaps You should ask Him?
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 01-25-2010 00:50
Soros does own lots of Petrobras stock. The company is government-controlled, but not entirely government-owned.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 01:03
Not only that Ross, but the Brazilian Government is now letting foreign and privately owned developers come in and develop the other fields which once developed, will make the Tupi field real smal in comparison. ;)

Re-read the links in my previous post and you'll see what I'm talking about. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 01:05
Hi Dave!

Like I said before, re-read he links I posted in my previous post where I posted them, and you'll get a better understanding of what I'm talking about. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-25-2010 01:24
Hank, I did read those links, the point remains that WE SHOULD BE DEVELOPING OUR OWN RESOURCES.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 01:38 Edited 01-25-2010 02:08
I agree Dave.. Why do you think I mentioned that we must develop the fields off the coast of Florida and not let the Cubans go there at the behest of the Chinese???

We should also develop ALL of our resources which are currently being contested by the these bonehead environmentalists!!! :) :) :) Why do you even think that I'm disagreeing with you here??? I'm just giving you some perspective Dave. ;)

Don't believe that Beck character because he's nothing more than a two faced clown posing as a conservative in order to get up his ratings, yet he's so full of himself it's ridiculous!!! A really bad case of "footinmouthilitis" IMHO! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-25-2010 02:10
We are not disagreeing with each other, We disagree with the enviromentalists and the polliticians they own.

I am not a great Beck fan, I would rather he stuck to the facts & left out the drama.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 03:24
I read you loud and clear Dave!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 13:56
Since the thread is oriented to the subject of jobs I wish to comment that perhaps it is time we give credit where credit is due. Jobs are being created.
Take the city of San Francisco for example. The stimulus package is paying for a half million dollar study on the drinking habits of clubbers. So, if you like the idea of getting payed to go clubbing this could be the stimulus job for you. Your tax dollars at work.
Don't shoot the messenger. Heard it on CNN this morning.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 14:22
Outstanding!! Just frickin lovely.

jrw159
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-25-2010 17:28
Continuing the rant:

At least there will manufacturing jobs created to build machinery for the Brazilian oil field with the money supplied by Ex-Im Bank loans. At least that is what is sold to the American public. I would place a good piece of change on a bet that a good portion of that money will be spent by American manufacturers purchasing equipment and materials from foreign sources and simply applying the good o'l "Made in America" stamp on the counterfeit equipment. That's the job created; the person placing the placard or stencil on the equipment will be an American (or illegal alien hired at a discount).

I wish there was one member of the US Congress that had the balls to stand up and say that federal tax dollars have to be spent on real American materials and manufactured products. I say this with the memory of the US Army attempting to purchase army uniforms from the Chinese! Just another general with high hopes of landing a lucrative job after retirement no doubt. I wonder if he was actually planning on going to China to live.

Let California sink into the Pacific if they want to buy Chinese produced and fabricated steel for their bridges! The same goes for Alaska and any other state including those along the Mississippi River. If the local government owned ports want to import their cranes for off-loading the foreign owned ships transporting foreign made products, let their local governments use state tax dollars pay for them. If they want to use state raised tax money, let them spend it the way their taxpayers vote, but if it is my federal tax money, then I want it to be "Buy American" not "North American" and not "Latin American.”

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 01-26-2010 03:40
There are cities here in Minnesota that are rejecting castings and fittings coming from the far east. Most of them cite federal funds require it but I have never seen anything in writing to that effect. I am a thinking its personal prefferance by the engineers and city officials. All hope is not lost if citizens stant up for something.
Parent - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 01-26-2010 18:04
Al, sometimes it is downright impossible to get steel from anywhere else in quantity.  I don't build bridges, but I do go through some tonnage of tubular A500.  More and more I see MTRs with that Chinese script on it.  We don't necessarily like it, but hey, my customers need product, and I need steel to manufacture that product.  This year!  One of my most dependable suppliers just told my purchaser that they will no longer be able to supply small quantities of 4130 plate; we can't afford to buy a mill run, so we have to go shopping.  Hopefully we'll find someplace with MMUSA requirements, but I'm not holding my breath.  And when I have to go MMUSA it's a purchasing nightmare, especially for common steel shapes in quantity.
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