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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / A number
- - By jsdwelder (***) Date 03-17-2010 18:39
Can someone tell me what the ASME A number would be for a weld between 1018 carbon steel to 410 stainless steel welded with 309 GTAW process?
Parent - - By GRoberts (***) Date 03-18-2010 23:24
Check ASME Section IX QW-442.  The composition for all the A number are listed there.  The A number is only in regards to the weld, not the base metal.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 03-19-2010 00:41
Hi Greg,
Is the A number not the chemical analysis of the weld deposit rather than the chemical analysis of the electrode ?
There are a variety of base metals that can be welded with a 309 electrode but could you not have a different A number dependant on the different combination of base metals welded with the 309 electrode ?
Surely the A number cannot be known until a PQR has been run using the base metals and electrode noted and the chemical analysis of the weld metal deposit noted ?
Regards,
Shane
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-19-2010 15:00
“A number” refers to the chemistry of the weld for ferrous metals, i.e., carbon steels, high strength low alloys, stainless steels, etc... ASME Section IX addresses how the A number can be determined for several scenarios. In the case where the base metal is carbon steel and the weld is deposited using a matching shielded metal arc covered electrode, the A number listed in the PQR can be taken from the manufacturer's test results. There are other scenarios listed in Section IX for other situations. The one method that is acceptable in all cases is to have the weld deposit analyzed to determine the chemistry, and then select the appropriate A number using the table provided in Section IX.

In any event, anyone attempting to qualify a WPS to ASME has to have a copy of Section IX and the applicable construction code. The construction code is required to determine if notch toughness is an issue and if Charpy impact testing is required. The construction code can also modify the requirements of Section IX.

The nature of this query raises the question of why it has to be asked. There are two plausible reasons the question is asked. The first reason that comes to mind is that a copy of ASME Section IX is not available to find the answer sought. The second reason is that the individual asking the question does not have a working knowledge of Section IX. The corrective action in both cases is relatively simple. Purchase the relevant ASME code sections, i.e., Section IX and the applicable construction code, i.e., Section I, Section VIII, etc. For the second case, attend a class on Section IX to become more familiar with the requirements and how to comply with the code’s requirements. Education is not inexpensive. A person can become educated by attending the “School of Hard Knocks” or spend the time and money to attend a course that provides the training needed. The latter is usually the fastest and cheapest way of attaining the education sought.

My comments are not meant to be a "cheap shot" directed to the fellow asking the question. It is directed toward the employer that does not provide the employee with the tools needed to do their job. It is no different that the case where the welder is not provided with the proper tools to prepare the weld joint, the proper electrode to make the weld, or equipment that is in good working order.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By GRoberts (***) Date 03-21-2010 23:17
Shane,
Section IX QW-404.5 permits A numbers to be determined from either the PQR as you mention, or the composition of the undiluted filler metal by one of several methods depending on the welding process.
Parent - By jsdwelder (***) Date 03-22-2010 00:20 Edited 03-22-2010 00:23
The reason I ask is for my own curiosity. The company we are working with is a sub contractor who has to follow the contractors requirements to qualify their own procedures but dictates what base metal's, what filler metal and what process to use along with any preheat or postheat required, so I would assume the A number has already been determined by them. I would think that was how they came up with the criteria for which filler to use with the base metals to be welded. Am I wrong to assume that "X " base metals welded with "Y" filler will always result in "Z" A number given that preheat and postheat are always consistant?
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 03-23-2010 00:20
Greg,
My response was mainly due to curiosity.
If you welded 2 pieces of carbon steel together with a 309 electrode would you not get a different A number than if you welded 2 pieces of stainless steel together with a 309 electrode ?
Regards,
Shane
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-23-2010 13:38
Let me ask a question.
Why A-No's?
Becasue in answer to Shanes question, which is yes, I could add, with dissimilars every single bead will be a different chemistry.
So what is the A-No telling us?
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / A number

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