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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Welder Qualifications
- - By WELDTECH (*) Date 02-20-2006 13:09
I just did some work for a company doing fillet weld qualifications for their welders. This company hires a lot of Mexican workers. I asked for I.D. and social security cards so that I could do fill out my paper work. Most of them had I.D.'s but not SS information. The contractor told me to call their office and get this information from the HR department. Is it my responsibility to make sure this information is accurate or is it the contractors? Do I ask for a copy of their I9 forms? I hate the thought of putting my name on a qualification form for a guy with a phony SSN. Any advice. I'm sure this is becoming a common problem with all the immigrants working in the construction field.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 02-20-2006 15:44
I recently did a similar thing for a insulation contractor. I used pictures and their employee number from the company. Since the qualifications only apply to that single contarctor, whatever means they used to identify the individual worked.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 02-20-2006 16:11
WELDTECH, I'm not sure which state you're in, but in many states have now made it illegal to ask for someones ss number as a form of identification. I may be wrong on this but I thought this was to become a federal thing. Any "legal" alien resident must have a work authorization from the INS or whatever they're now calling themselves....
Parent - By MBlaha (***) Date 02-21-2006 03:19
Jon:

Not the case in Wisconsin, or at least not that I am aware of as I started this job in Jan and I had to provide a SSN, and Drivers liscense with a photo to get hired. Can you provide more info on this?? This has been the case for quite a few years where ever I have went.

Mike
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-20-2006 21:50
Consider using their employee number that is assigned by the employer and as recommended before, include a digital photograph on the test report.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 02-21-2006 12:40
This might sound bad, but if these workers are of foreign origin, I would probably ask for some proof of work authorization in the USA....
Parent - By WELDTECH (*) Date 02-22-2006 13:26
The reason I asked about SSN as employee ID is because AWS D1.3 form A-3 asks for the welder's SSN. I also do several deck qualifications. I work out of Indiana. The last two employers I've had requested a copy of my ID and SSN and a Federal I9 form to be filled out.
Parent - By Ariel D C (**) Date 02-24-2006 09:53
Details in their Passport may be used.

Regards

Ariel D C
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-24-2006 14:13
This is an interesting question. I have recently tested/qualified welders for another company here in town and most were of mexican decent and wondered myself if the SS# that was given to me for the paperwork was legit. Having no way to check, I accepted them as good and went on. But, I wonder how many pass off fake SS#'s, (regardless of race) I just wonder how you would be able to verify this info. Do you let the company that hired them be responsible for proving their info as legit? I wouldn't want something like that come back to bite me, when I was just trying to help out this company with welder quals.
John Wright
Parent - - By BF (*) Date 02-24-2006 19:09
I work in a fab shop in Northern Indiana and interview, test and hire the welders. Our HR person has given me a form with 3 lists of acceptable documents to establish employment eligibility and identity. I have to see a document from list A or B and one from list C. I cannot ask for specific documents, they pick from the list and I make sure they look real to me and record the document numbers and issuing body. I was told it is illegal to ask for specific documents, all I can ask for is approved documents from the provided lists. And if you are giving someone a qualification test you are not certifying them to be eligible to work, just qualified to weld per the test they took. It's someone elses responsibility to check their work eligibilty not yours unless you are doing the hiring. All you really need is some kind of ID for their certification, correct?
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-25-2006 14:36
You know, this makes sense to me; I have seen the "A or B plus C" list somewhere before. I also agree that the employer must verify the employees eligibility for employment.
The test administrator is simply recording how the welder taking the test was identified and the results of the test. Not being recorded; is whether the welder is in the country legally or appears on the FBI's "10 Most Wanted" list. Certainly, if there is personal knowledge of a crime having been committed, it should be reported to the proper authorities, but I do not think most people will have that knowledge. We must be careful not to assume guilt until innocence is proven; especially when suspicion is based on a person's appearance.

I think if I were in the same situation, I would ask the company that hired the welders to supply a list of the people who will be tested and indicate how the welders are to be identified. In some cases, it might be a company issued ID badge.

Chet
Parent - - By Ariel D C (**) Date 02-25-2006 17:05
I agree with BF, If I'm from other country and would like to be tested in USA...will the testing officer ask for my work permit?? for what?? I just want to be certified and have no intention to work in USA.

Similarly, If I will take AWS-CWI exam in USA, will AWS ask for my work permit..my passport should be all rigth for verification.

Ariel D C
Parent - - By Quality0537 (*) Date 03-16-2006 07:00
I work in a shop that does work and maintains welder certs in accordance to muliple state dot and customer specific qualifications. For one of our clients - we used to use the SSN as a welder ID number. A couple of years back we were threatened with a lawsuit for doing such, as it was -
1) was illegal as the SSN was never intended as an ID for Anything beyond taxes and financial grounds.

2) Providing potential ID thieves easier access to personells SSN - which could ope us to liability issues as well.

I have heard that a number of states are no longer allowing SSN to be used for ID on anything anymore. My insurance, retirement accounts and all that USED to - but not anymore.

You can use a Compnay employee number, and similar ID's
Parent - - By vonash (**) Date 03-23-2006 04:46
The guy can sweep the floor, or bolt-up; we are inundated with John Yuan types. I make them qualify whether they have papers or not. If he/she can not pass the standard AWS performance qualification tests; well tough s...! I tell the contractor this guy can bolt up on my job or sweep the floor, but perform welding Heck no!! Not until they have passed the approved welder qualification tests for my poject.
My very best regards, and wonderful times for you and yours,
VONASH
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 03-23-2006 15:51
Vonash; I believe the meat of this thread deals with PWI (Possitive Welder Identification). No one has even suggested that these welders are exempt from Performance Qualification Requirements. Personally I use the last four digits of the SS# on the continuity records, which gives enough traceable ID without compromizing the persons security. Just one way, not saying it is the best way. Deb
Parent - - By vonash (**) Date 03-24-2006 21:58
Cool Deb,
If you are a qualified welder, that is your career, passing a test is not bad, it is good. However, if you are a CWI the out-of-towners that you may accept just might be the so-called welders I send packing.
Parent - By vonash (**) Date 03-24-2006 22:01
P.S.
Welderette.
Please learn to spell.
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 03-25-2006 00:38
Vonash; You know nothing of the welders whose test I either accept or reject. I was a qualified/certified/bonafide welder for about 25 years. I never professed to good spelling, and I can't type worth a farthing. But I can keep an open mind concerning all welders who come to my test booth, I do not label their ethnic background, or pre suppose anything. I let them SHOW me what skill they have. I accept or reject in keeping with the Code, and respect the person for trying, wether or not they meet the standard. For those that fail I try to encourage them to keep practicing. But that is just me, DEB
PS. What did I misspell?
Parent - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 03-25-2006 05:52
Compromising, (I had to look it up to check). General Patton made much worse spelling mistakes than I have ever seen in your posts. He made up for it in other ways as do you.
Bill
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-25-2006 14:47
Welderette,
I'm not so sure you meant to mis-spell anything, you simply had a heavy finger on the "s" key when you typed "pos(s)itive" :)

That's nothing because I get one finger in front of another all the time and it looks like I can't spell worth a lick, but fortunately, no one sees "all" of the edits to my postings that I make correcting my horrific mis-spellings.
I also appreciate your open mind/respect and your encouragement.
John Wright
Parent - By tito (**) Date 03-25-2006 17:20
One qualification generally required of inspectors is good written and oral communication skills. As inspectors, and to conduct ourselves in a professional manner, all written communications should be double checked for spelling and grammatical errors. Well written, well spoken communication by an inspector is paramount in our daily functions to gain respect from our peers as well as subordinates.

Now, with that said, I do not feel it is anybodies place in this forum to judge or point out that someone made a mistake on something so irrelevant. Albeit this forum is full of professionals, I come to this site for advice and help on subjects that I do not quite understand or have not experienced yet. Now, when someone is kind enough to take the time to answer my questions, I am extremely greatful and not judgemental to that person if they misspelled a word, or made any kind of typo. I come for advice...not to see how many people don't double check their posts.

Although in business, I make every attempt to double check everything I write or type so that my business associates do not think I'm illiterate, I'm not ashamed to make mistakes in a forum when sometimes I am pressed for time and do not double check everything. After all, every e-mail I have ever sent would be full of spelling mistakes (due to accidently hitting wrong key) if it weren't for spell check. To bad this site doesn't offer spell check. Maybe if it did, there would be less meaningless posts pointing out a spelling errors.

To all who have replied and offered advice (with correct or incorrect grammer, punctuation, and spelling) to anything I have ever posted....THANKS!

Not an English Major,
Tito

P.S. If I misspelled anything.....Tuff S**T
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-26-2006 00:48
I am fairly certain that asking for SS number is in fact illegal in most cases. However, It is important to properly identify anyone for purposes of qualification as the next inspector down the line will need it for continuity records. As for responsibility, I would not ask for anyones SS# due to legal reasons.
Parent - - By vonash (**) Date 03-27-2006 01:46
No ID, No Passy Testy.
Parent - - By Ariel D C (**) Date 03-28-2006 09:33
Spelling is not a big issue so long as your message is clear and not difficult to understand. You may want to buy those pocket size electronic American Heritage Dictionary if you think correct spelling is a big problem for you. Anyway, I must tell you that you are fortunate that English is your first language compare to other nations like China, Korea, Japan etc. Once you’ve experienced to work with other nationals in overseas projects, then only you will realize that some of them although equipped with AWS-CWI, ASNT LEVEL III certification but don’t have the same command of English (written or oral) like what you have. But I think they are successful because they’ve proven that they aren’t for domestic use only.

Ariel DC
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 03-28-2006 11:19
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Speaking of spelling, I had an emergency once with my ex-wife and I had to call 911. The 911 operator said that she would send someone out right away, and asked me what street I live on. I told her that I live at the end of Eucalyptus Drive. The operator then asked if I could spell that for her. After a long pause, I finally told the operator that I'd just drag her over to Oak Street, and asked if they could pick her up there.
Parent - By vonash (**) Date 03-28-2006 21:46
That is hilarious; universally speaking.
Parent - - By johnnyh (***) Date 03-22-2010 18:08
bump for CWI55's first post
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-22-2010 22:46
Hmmm 4 years ago. Was that the first one?
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 03-23-2010 00:27
I use to hire and test the welders at a structural shop. In order to properly process w-2 information
a social sec number is required. we took photo copies of all drivers licenses and social  sec cards. one day we got
a visit from the feds looking for a former employee. Turns out he wand about twenty others were all using the same
social security card and numbers with different names but the same number. We were told gthat we could be prosecuted
for hireing an undocumented worker. I promptly pulled out a copy of the social sec card. I told the feds it was only my responsability
to document that the employee had a card and that i was not a document expert and  his card looked very real to me.
perhaps the govt should issue a better card that is not so easy to copy. you can go to almost any street corner in Los Angeles
and buy a social security card. Almost every wqr i have filled out asks for a social number . I don't ask to see their card for a test
but if there is a place on the procedure for it i ask for the number.   Joe
Parent - By hvymax (**) Date 03-26-2010 14:28
If th SS# is required on the document "YOU" are not asking it is merely  required by the form. We are required to verify that the person we are testing is who they say they are no if's and's or but's so requiring them to fill out the form COMPLETELY and personally verifying whichever ID forms they supply is our responsibility. If they can meet this standard or any of the other standards we are there to discern it is our responsibility to "fail" them based on those grounds.                                                                                                                                                                  John B
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Welder Qualifications

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