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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / GMAW Short Circuiting
- - By greek (*) Date 04-07-2010 16:55
Welding A53 Sch 40 pipe 3/8" dia. for handrails Thickness 0.109 What code do I use to Qualify WPS and Welders
Parent - - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 04-07-2010 21:32
Greek, I use Farm Code 2010 latest edition, all welds smoother the better because it makes it alot easier to grind finish, also make EVERY welder grind and finish his own welds, its very surprising how "efficient" they become at welding and grinding their own work.(used to be you could hire laborers for 10.00/hr. to do this cleanup work, them days are GONE) also .030-.035 bare wire w/ 90-10 gas mix works well.  As far as codes, misc. steel is usually covered by structural wps !!!!! Pittsburgh home of the STEELERS and PENS
Parent - - By greek (*) Date 04-07-2010 22:41
The reason I ask is D1.1 states it covers 1/8" and thicker, I was looking at D1.3,but thats sheet steel and this is pipe
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 04-08-2010 00:01
I've witnessed the iron workers on many a job use the red bondo
spot putty to help smooth out the welds where the grinder can't get it all
it blends in ral good with the red oxide primer lol
Parent - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 04-08-2010 04:25
Joe, Got an excellent story on the powers of bondo; About a year after the new stadium (PNC PARK) was completed there were various areas that the concrete was spalling, so being under bonded guarantee the stadium authority called in a concrete specialist to redo the defective areas. When they removed the rail in these areas the powers that be decided to have the rails regalvanized. Only problem the rails started to come apart at the bondoed areas( during handling ,transport & off loading )best part was when they started the galv. process pieces were falling off in the tanks!!!!! Ended up had to send a crew up to the galv. plant and inspect/ fix every area that was bondoed.Was a very good winter that year!!!! In my shop I will run a guy off if he brings in bondo " we're a misc. metals shop NOT a body shop"  From Pittsburgh home of the STEELERS and PENS
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-08-2010 03:53
I have worked on several jobs that required the welders to be qualified to D1.1 using a prequalified WPS that utilized backing. The contractors in one case used E6010 (field) and another used GMAW (shop).

The majority of the jobs just let the welders blaze away with no inspection until something breaks and then it is back to the drawing boards. Then the engineer insists the welders be qualified in the 6G using E7018, vertical uphill progression. The mood gets rather bleak at that point.

Best regards - Al
- - By joe pirie (***) Date 04-08-2010 00:02
wait a second 3/8 dia pipe i think you mean 1 3/8
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 04-08-2010 00:53
Not sure what He means, 1 1/4" sch 40 is commonly used, about 1 5/8 OD, conforms to most codes.
Parent - - By greek (*) Date 04-08-2010 13:24 Edited 04-08-2010 13:37
These are handrails for a school in California 3/8"dia. pipe 3/8"square bars as pickets
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 04-08-2010 14:31 Edited 04-08-2010 14:47
greek,

First,  Welcome to the forum.  Haven't seen you post anywhere else so suspect you to be fairly new here.

The first place I would check is in your print pack and contract documents.  That should give you a break down for structural, decking, etc as to the code they expect 'ALL' various phases of the welding to be done to.

Then, see if they reference anything in particular from IBC especially sections 12 or 16.  No codes for weld completion are called out but there are regs for stress, loads and other factors to be considered. 

Also, what part does DSA play in this job or in the railings?  Is there anything in their requirements as to the codes applicable for welding railing.

Question, are you talking about a 'grip' rail or just a barrier or gaurd rail.  More than likely you are referencing barriers along an elevated walkway or balcony from the sounds of it.  But your description still leaves something to be desired.  And I don't think that size material will meet any of the load requirements from IBC Section 16 especially for public areas.

I believe if you qualified your people to D1.1 with small diameter pipe you could get engineers approval for what ever you do on the railing.  Would obviously need an RFI to document approval. 

Good luck.

EDIT:  My bad.  Just noticed the thread title.  There will not be a D1.1 for GMAW-S.  You would have to do a PQR then test all your people to it.  Now, if your people are already qualified to D1.3 with GMAW-S then you may be able to get an engineer's approval for the railing welds even if they did not "pipe" qualify.  Again, RFI.  And, as Al said, may need to use backing rings for any butt joints.  But if you are doing fillet welds in a square bar to round pipe, picket to horizontal bar, connection then you would not need any backing and several of the other D1.3 qualifying tests would work as well.  Just my two tin pennies worth.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By greek (*) Date 04-08-2010 19:41
Thanks for the info D1.3 sound like the way to go
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 04-08-2010 20:20
when ive seen the iron workers assemble the rails in the field it looks like they
have a smaller dia pipe inside the actual handrail and theyn use that for the backup.
its not a chill ring  it looks like sch 40 pipe   Joe
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-08-2010 20:45
What in tarnation is a "chill ring"?

Al
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 04-08-2010 21:42 Edited 04-08-2010 21:47
A chill ring is a backing ring. They usually are supplied with little pins that help you set the joint gap.
They come preformed and have gaps in the ring portion so you can adjust somewhat to ID tolerances.
You usually end up with a slight gap you have to bridge.
Once you get your tacks in place you bust off the pins and weld it out, usually with 7018, etc. No open root.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-08-2010 21:52
You have to scroll down a bit... but here is a pic

http://deltaschooloftrades.com/supplemental_information_2.htm

http://www.piletips.com/Weld_Chill_Rings.htm
Parent - By joe pirie (***) Date 04-08-2010 21:54
the chill rings are alot thinner than the pipe inserts ive seen them use  Joe
Parent - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 04-08-2010 22:55
Joe, Handrail supply co.'s( R.B. Wagner is the dominate) make a rail insert splice for 1 1/4",1 1/2" pipe in steel and aluminum. Looks like 3/4 of a pipe 7" long,kind of springy material, tap 1/2 way in and plug weld on bottom of rail. Also they make rings for lining up fittngs in steel,stainless & aluminum work excellent when useing fittings like sideouts & formed 90's. From Pittsburgh home of the STEELERS and PENS !!!!!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / GMAW Short Circuiting

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