Hmmm, I'm no expert like some of the other guys on the board, but I would say you would want a TIG machine. Maybe something like a Miller 180SD. Also I am sure you will get lectured about building a SAFE frame. I would think you would want to get certified in the appropriate area and have LOTS of liability insurance if you are selling these motorcycles.
Bottom line you need to be a competent welder before attemping to build anything that can kill you if it falls apart going 80 mph down the road.
I love bikes too, faster the better. I would grab an engineer and have him look over your designs to get his blessing that you are in fact: 1)using the correct size fillet welds for the loads, 2)using the correct size tubing with the correct wall thicknesses for the loads, 3) using stiffeners where needed and they are of the correct thickness. These were just some of the concerns that came to mind. I'm not an engineer, so he may look at your designs and think it may be overkill, but they get paid for all that engineering knowledge to keep people like me from hurting themselves. I was watching TV and they were showing a threewheeler that was pulling a barbecue on wheels (made out of an old VW bug) and the thing came apart and it threw the camera man and the pilot in the dirt. I think it was Monster Garage, but I can't remember for sure.
I would say that GMAW/FCAW and GTAW are both commonly used in motorcycle fabrication.
John Wright
Forgot to welcome you to the forum......Welcome!
John Wright
All of the advice you are getting here is excellent. Safety is of paramount concern. Making your own custom frames can be a very rewarding hobby or even profession. But, you must understand that proper engineering for design and welding is of the utmost importance. The days of building a frame and testing it just by trial and error are gone. Most (not all) custom frames are made from chrome-moly. It requires a certain amount of skill and knowledge to do this correctly. After you learn a little more about welding you will come to the conclusion that the best process for motorcycle frames is the GTAW process. Good luck, be safe and remember you can never have too much knowledge.
Respectfully,
Mike Sherman
Shermans Welding
Thanks for all the advice. I do understand what you're saying about safety. I have alot of ideas in my head that I think I should tone-down for now. Its good to know that I can come to a forum like this and get good solid advice. While I think of it I have another question. Why does it seem that nobody is interested in oxy/acetylene welding anymore ? I thought it was such a versatile form of welding but everyone now just seems to use mig and tig.
The base material ends up with a narrower (HAZ) heat effected zone on either side of the welded joint with these newer processes than with oxy/fuel. This is another thing the engineer may want to know about your design, the process you plan to use.
John Wright
I'd look for another Welding School if I was you!
Gas Welding, and by that I mean Brazing and soldering as well,are the most important methods of joining race frames together!
Whilst T.I.G. welding provides an excellent method of joining tube together, the added 'flexability' of brazed or soldered joints on a race frame can make all the difference come the 'handling charactrisects' of the final product!
GTAW (Tig) and GMAW (Mig) can be used for brazing also.
The school where I'm taking the stick welding course doesn't even offer gas welding as fat as I know. It only has Stick, Mig, and Tig , and you have to take them in that order.
Here at work when someone wants to try their hand at welding to see if that is the path they want to pursue. We start them out on SMAW and let them get the hang of that and once they can control that proceess we move them on to the wire welders. The order of progression is pretty normal that they are sending you through at the welding school. Don't be to impatient trying to hurry up and progress to the GMAW/FCAW or GTAW. I feel that the SMAW process should be learned to get the basics of welding/joining materials first then move on. Practice, Practice and then Practice some more. I know you are anxious to get started sticking metal together, but make sure you learn all the basic principles involved as you go. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't look perfect when you first start, keep on burning those rods until you get it. Ask questions, that's what you are paying for with your tuition. That instructor is there to answer those questions.
Good Luck,
John Wright
Don't get discouraged with building your bikes, just get all your ducks in a row and do it right. Keep your dream alive. You are getting starting right by getting the welding training out of the way. But don't stop there, draw up your frames and put all the dims on the drawing so an engineer can do his job without stopping to figure angles and dims that are not given. He will probably charge by the hour or something and you will save your hard earned money to put towards materials for your bike, if he isn't taking his time doing all of the dimensional figuring. Let him do the engineering calculations and seal it with his blessing. This will ensure that you will produce a great product for yourself or someone else. Keep the forum posted of your progress.
John Wright
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Date 10-17-2003 15:04
Learn & then master the Gas process before you attempt any other type of method and process.Learn about different metal(s) and their melting and boiling points and temperature control to make you an even greater weldor.Once OxyFuel Gas welding is learned then GTAW the new name for tig will be a piece of cake.
The american welding society claims the welder is the machine and the actual welder operating the machine.The dictionary says that there is welder:machine and weldor:human operating machine.Just FYI
Yes, I had heard that it is best to learn Oxy Acetylene welding first and then move on to arc welding, but as I said, this school doesn't offer a oxy welding class. It starts out with arc welding. I don't know of any other schools close by that offer gas welding classes. I always thought that having gas equipment would be handy for cutting and bending.
By -
Date 10-17-2003 17:18
Welding/Brazing/Soldering with your gas torch is a recommendation for ANY and I mean ANY Fabrication shop big or small! Especially in the Automotive Trade such as Race cars,Go karts,and MotorCycles.What kind of bikes you build?...Classic choppers or do you just restore them or what do you do?
By -
Date 10-17-2003 17:21
Hey buddy that stick welding is not acceptable for welding anything on any piece of automotive engine,frame,bracket,or panel.Stick welding is down-right-filthy compared to Gas and "The Rolls Royce" of welding: GTAW (Tig-Heli Arc)......I am so glad I gotten rid of the stick habit.Boy that was a bad habit.
Oxyfuelweldor,
Don't put away that habit just yet because, you never know when you might have to use it again!!!
Respectfully,
SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
I like old british bikes: Triumph, BSA, Norton. So far I've just done restorations but I'd like to do more. I have a '69 BSA right now that I want to keep pretty close to stock since its a complete bike. I don't much care for choppers but I do love bobbers. I think for my next project I'll find a basket case and make it a hard tail. I think they look great.
Ok this old man bites, what's a bobber?
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm
That's the army welding manual- lots of oxy fuel info in there. Some airplanes up to WW2 vintage had tube frames and were oxy-fuel welded. All in all the best way to weld is the way you're best at. I wouldn't eliminate any of the above mentioned processes as impossible. If you were manufacturing frames you might eliminate some as uneconomical however
Bill
Hey Bill. Thanks for the response. A bobber doesn't have a rake like a chopper....on a chopper the front wheel is way-out in front like Peter Fondas bike in the movie Easy Rider. On a bobber, the front end isn't extended much, if at all. Sometimes the rear wheel is extended out with a hardtail. The fenders are often bobbed to make them smaller. They usually have solo seats that look alot like bicycle seats. I hope I'm making sense.
Hooks,
Not sure for BSA's but MAP in ST Pete, Fla sells hardtail frame rear sections for non oil in frame Triumphs. Just bolt on in place of the original rear section.
Ed
Hey Oxyfuelwelder, as I said, I can't find any schools around me that teach gas welding. Do you have any tips about good books, froums etc where I might learn more ?
By -
Date 10-19-2003 03:25
Hooks,Go to welding.org and go to the books section under general welding books and try or atleast buy a oxyfuel gas welding book.I bought one and they seem great with alot of different information and pictures and even out of position welding that which I never thought was possible!....Tig welding is ideal for motorcycle construction but is very "costly".....try a hands on demonstration if they even have one at your local supplier and I am telling you that you will love the amazing puddle control.I recommend High Frequency Tig.A lincoln square wave 175 pro will be a ideal welder for your needs!...Thank you!
Thanks again OxyFuelWelder. I'll go check-out Welding.org. Thats also a good idea to go to a welding supplier to see some demos. My stick welding class starts in a couple weeks and I'm getting real psyched thinking about all the things I can do with this skill.
By -
Date 10-19-2003 05:55
Great hooks,classes are always great.You should try tig welding though.Greater puddle control and more precise and certified looking welds
hey hooks, welcome to the forum. Where are u located?? Im in los angeles and im currently attending l.a trade tech, here at this school they teach oxy/acetylene for 1st semester then stick, mig, and finally tig and they also prep u for the l.a cert. I must admit that oxy/acet was a fun process to learn for me and now im enjoying stick welding. If u mentioned u are not in the area im sorry, but if u are then maybe u can come check the school out. Well im anxious to start mig and tig welding so maybe i can start making those nice beads u get with tig.
Gas Welding/Brazing, Wire Welding (GMAW FCAW) , TIG ( GTAW).
Basically it depends on the frame. Old stock frames depending upon the year used cast headstocks. The pieces were joined by some brazing fashion. All of the advice mentioned previously was for the most part in my opinion great. Especially taking the designs to an engineer for the blessing. Your welding processes as well should be looked at by someone that has an understanding of the filler and base metals that you're joining. Sometimes Engineers arent that familliar with the welding aspects. They can give you a size the weld should be to calculations, but lack the experience with the process involved.
I'd like to hear how you're coming on your projects if you dont mind writing about them.
I do want to learn mig and tig also but you have to take stick first. I really wish they started out with oxy welding but I guess I'll have to teach myself. Yes I'll keep posting about my projects because I'll probably have alot of questions for this forum. The 69 BSA Lightning that I have now I won't be doing any welding on. I think all that I'm gonna do to it is maybe some cut-down fenders, a solo seat, and maybe drag handle bars. I want to upgrade it to electronic ignition and a podtronics regulator. Oh yea, I think I'm gonna add some turn signals so I can ride it regularly. I don't want to do anything cosmetically to it that can't be changed back to stock easily. I'll find a basket case to try frame changes and that will be awhile before I get to that. Maybe my welding skills will be acceptable by then.
