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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / test position 3G
- - By jsdwelder (***) Date 06-30-2010 12:41
When taking a certification test in the 3G position what would be the allowable amount that the plate can lean back from 90 degree's. I am looking at my 2006 edition of D1.1 and Fig. 4.1 has a chart that I beleive allows for 10 degree's from 90. Am I correct in the way I am reading this?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-30-2010 12:49 Edited 06-30-2010 12:56
Yeah, you can lean the plate to you 10° so the tolerance is -10°, plus zero°.....IOW, 80-90°....can't lean it back past 90°

EDIT:
.....although, I see that you can rotate the face 0-360°....I haven't tested anyone rotating the face around 180° so that the plate is leaned back 10°, so I'm not sure if I'm reading that right.....but it appears that you might be able to lean it back, if you use the option to rotate 180°.

Hopefully more people will chime in..........
Parent - - By jsdwelder (***) Date 06-30-2010 13:00
Thanks John. Thats the way I read it too. I couldn't understand why anyone would want to lean it that way thats why I was confused.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-30-2010 13:04
The test taker may like the option to lean it back away from them.....a little less trouble to run up that groove, than if the plate was perfectly 90°.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-30-2010 23:15
Because of the rotation allowances I always understood it to mean that any weld placed in a groove within 10 degrees of a 90 degree vertical axis was considered a vertical weld joint rather it leaned toward the operator or away from him and thus allowable to be used that way for testing.

Now, I, like several here just tell testers that 'vertical means vertical' though I have had few ask.  But when I throw my inclinometer on the test plate to check their set up, if it is within 5 degrees of 90 I generally don't get bent out of shape over it. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 06-30-2010 13:04
jsdwelder
I believe you are referring to Fig.4.1.
This is a chart to show the ranges of the positions.
Not how far the tester can fudge their test set-up.
Any qualification test Plates I witness for 3G will be 90°.
Just my ¢¢'s
Good Luck
Marshall
Parent - - By jsdwelder (***) Date 06-30-2010 13:40
I agree with that. To me vertical means 90 degree's. I had a guy ask me to show him where it says he couldn't lean it back and I didn't really have anything saying he couldn't. This wasn't for a D1.1 test, it was actually for a NYSDOT test, but I noticed they have the same page as Fig. 4.1 in the NYS Steel Construction Manual
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 06-30-2010 14:13
jsdwelder
Just tell them that they will not be able to move the building to a slant to accommodate their inability to weld vertical.
Qualification tests are not supposed to cater to the tester they are to ensure the tester can perform in the position.
I like AWS D1.5 Bridge Code for welder qualification. It has more restrictions on what the welder can and can not do.
Marshall
Parent - - By jsdwelder (***) Date 06-30-2010 14:20
Yeah I hear ya there. Can't tell how many times I've said that line over the years. Can you do it or can't you? I told a guy one time to put his wifes high heels on backwards and that should be make it seem like the plate is leaning back enough for you! He didn't find the humor in it that I did.
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 06-30-2010 14:32
jsdwelder
Also this isn't their test it is the companies test to cull out those who are not good enough.
Remember the Test is controlled by the qualifier not the other way around.
As I mentioned I have my Qualification Procedures written to D1.5 guidelines, those who are not really able to weld complain, but my employer pays me to ensure the welders can perform as required all the time not just on a good day and with things going their way.
Marshall
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 07-01-2010 23:10
I take vertical to mean vertical on a test.  Likewise overhead as overhead.  If a welder thinks they need a crutch, that is fine, they can opt to test somewhere else.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 07-02-2010 00:20
I agree with Blaster. The test is MY test. If the welder passes, the cert is his/her cert.

On the other hand, I was looked out on a 3G root pass in a shipyard once cuz the inspector said the backing bar wasn't showing enough scaling on the back side.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-02-2010 04:55
The positions defined by figures 4.1 and 4.2 have nothing to do with the tolerance of test positions of the performance test. They depict the range of the positions for production welding so that a determination can be made as to what postions the PQR and performance tests are needed. Likewise, the tolerances listed for the prequalified joint details, figures 3.3 and 3.4  have nothing to do with the permitted ranges of the root opening and groove angles of the performance tests.

I  use a torpedo level when setting up the test plates. The bubble has to be between the lines applicable for the test being administered. The figures for the various test assemblies in clause 4 do not provide tolerances with the exception of figures 4.24 and 4.25 which only apply to the groove configurations for qualifications on tubular sections.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / test position 3G

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