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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / semi-automatic and gmaw certification question
- - By jacanfora (*) Date 07-19-2010 18:11 Edited 07-19-2010 18:17
When I got my D1.1 License in Manual and Semi-Automatic I was under the impression that GMAW fell under the semi-automatic portion of my certifications. A local structural fabricator     (HR Dept.) in buisness for 50 years, is wanting more, or specifically GMAW on my certs. My AWS paperwork I gave them, lists filler metal used at time of test, which was nr-232. The requirements for the job are GMAW and FCAW. They're only questioning the GMAW. So my question is... Am I only qualified for GMAW process? and Only certified in FCAW process? Very frustrating when this happens. Willing to take a $5hr decrese in pay to work locally. Another place running 305 wire wouldnt accept my certifications either. Ended up doing layout. They wanted D1.8 certifications for shop work. Flat and horziontal critical welds, ok, but flange to flange within an access in shop fabrication???? For column base, stiffners, and wing plate fillet welds???? Going back to school, but is this really what we're up against? Thanks and correct me if I'm wrong, trying to keep some humor along the way.... Jeff
Parent - - By jarcher (**) Date 07-19-2010 18:50
Not really sure what the question(s) is/are here, so I'll give what information I feel to be relevant.  No GMAW and FCAW are not identical, they are classified as operate processes by AWS. There is no such thing as one certification covers all, you must do a welder qualification test that meets the requirements of you potential employer's WPS. Usually the employer administers these tests although sometimes an employer will send people offsite to be tested. IOW to get the job, you usually take test(s) for the employer's qualified welding procedures. Its been that way every since I was a pup.
Parent - - By jacanfora (*) Date 07-19-2010 19:02
ok, i understand... if, they want me to be certified already to AWS requirements, just to be considered eligible for the job. i will be going in for a "weld test", but i believe they only want to verify that i can set up and operate. maybe to see technique and bead profile. My question was why then does my D1.1 license say semi-automatic and not just FCAW?
Parent - By Skaggydog (**) Date 07-25-2010 04:51
Because it was not Automatic FCAW it was semi-automatic FCAW.
Parent - - By supermoto (***) Date 07-19-2010 18:51
I need some more info to answer correctly.

If you have access to a D1.1 code than check out the essential varialbles requiring requalification in Ch. 4 (2010 table 4.5)
Parent - By jacanfora (*) Date 07-19-2010 19:23
table 4.5 covers it completly. Change in filler metal, voltage, wire feed speed, travel speed, and shielding gas. all requirements for re qualification. at this i see why if its critical to the shop, why they may not want to accept outside paperwork.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-19-2010 19:00
GMAW and FCAW are semi-automatic processes.

NR-232 is a Self Sheilding FCAW ,tubular wire.

......what wire did you use for the GMAW test? That is a solid wire electrode.

These are two separate tests in D1.1, two different processes.

Why is anyone asking for papers, that is crazy? I will never accept any outside welding papers from any one, there is no way that I could vouch for anyone's welding continuity if I haven't witnessed their entire welding career.

-whoops...others beat me to it.....
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-19-2010 19:01
NR 232 is a FCAW electrode... If your performance qualification test was done with this you are NOT qualified to run GMAW to D.1.

But it's problematic for employers to demand outside certs for their own production work...  Nobody that does quality code work accepts a cert from outside unless they have a direct relationship with the testing lab.

Now... Maybe they want to simply see the GMAW certs so they are confident that you have worked with the process and they limit their risk by putting you on the payroll.  You may be tested again before production work in the shop.

It might be wise to go back to them and ask them straight out...  "Do you intend to use my outside certifications to do your production work or are these simply proof of my experience in the process?"
Parent - - By jacanfora (*) Date 07-19-2010 19:10
is it possible that they want the certification in my hands already, so they dont have to pay a lab?  Well thank you for the responses, will follow up after interview in an hour.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-19-2010 21:55
It is totallly possible they want the cert for the reason you think.

In my opinion that is crappy business on their part.

Good luck with the interview...  Work is work eh?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-20-2010 03:48
There are many contractors and fabricators that on the bottom of the barrel for reasons that are all too well known. They are the companies that complain of high turnover because their welders jump ship. The welders jump ship for good reasons, but the companies are too ignorant to recognize why.

AWS D1.1 will permit the new employer to accept previous qualification, but there are conditions attached. AWS requires separate qualification tests for GMAW, GMAW-S, and FCAW. It saves the employer money and time to have prospective employees test on their own time and spend their own money. It can be a condition of employment, but I would be hesitant to go out and spend my time and money when there is no agreement in place that I would be hired if I pass the test.

In general, ASME does not accept qualification by a previous employer (except in certain cases). ASME does permit a welder qualified with either GMAW or FCAW to weld with either process. Remember, committees usually ends up designing a camel when in fact their original goal was to design a racehorse. AWS committees are not different in that respect. ANSI/National codes and standards are developed by consensus, majority rules.

Now that I have insulted every person that has ever served on a committee, I have to head out in the morning and drive nearly 600 miles to meet with several AWS committees I serve on. Go figure! Next camel please, or is it a goat this time?

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jacanfora (*) Date 07-20-2010 15:33
Nothing the employer can do until I get GMAW certification. Cant stay busy there until then I get cert. or nothin'. He wants flat position only, unlimited preffered, spray arc. I am in touch with D1.1 approved school and also a lab. It comes out to same price either way, school or independent lab. Lab can do it Thursday, not sure about the school. Don't care to rush the instructor. Lab also gave me quote on D1.8 test assembly, might do both with him. How would do you know that a lab is "true" (lack of better word)? What kind of inspecting certifications should he hold? Is there no need to be sceptical?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-23-2010 20:25
Ask them if they provide you with a WPS, the test plates, and if the test witness is a CWI or SCWI.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / semi-automatic and gmaw certification question

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