DOT numbers & CSA 2010 FMCSA " HERE COMES THE PAIN" PITT.

Date 08-18-2010 23:18

'I'm from the Government and I'm here to HELP you.'

Yeah, help us right out of business and into financial ruin. All they want to do is make us a nation of servants. They will soon OWN and CONTROL everything. Womb to the Tomb. Taxes, insurance, regulations, reports, forms for this, that, and everything. You will spend so much time doing paperwork and going to seminars to keep up your various certifications you won't have time to work. Just be carerful you don't spend too much time studying, you won't be able to drive home.

Oh well, Have a Great Day ANYWAY, Brent

By JLWelding (***)

Date 08-18-2010 23:19

Move,go out of bussiness, dont give it to them. All it is is big government and they anit stopping there. Next they will be telling you you have to work this weekend to pay your share of the new tax law, it sounds stupid but what's scarry is it probably not far off.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 08-19-2010 00:58 Edited 08-19-2010 01:15

"How does that change my drive time ??????" It does not BUT you can drive yourself cross country non stop and it is not illegal (or dangerous right?)....AS LONG as your not making any money at it or driving your tools.

I rekon I need to make it fit on a 3/4 ton and/or use a trailer.   THAT IS RIDICULOUS!! I wonder how many guys are really gonna get pulled over without DOT numbers on their trucks?? If you got to run log books, and are truly gonna abide and be "legal", well customer costs just went up....more trips, less time, hotels when it ain't necessary. I know when I am too tired to drive and I don't, too scared of falling asleep at the wheel.....I DO NOT NEED THEM telling me when I can and cannot.   How many of you guys not running DOT numbers on your rigs are gonna run down there and sign up for that sh*& ?

More regs and drive up costs    yea I can see what that is doing for the economy. Great job by our representatives.

AND another thing    That will probably drive some guys to give up the dually and stuff the hell out of 3/4 tons.....that is not making the roads safer for anyone....that is what those regulations are suppose to accomplish.   IDIOTS!!

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 08-19-2010 01:27

Tommy, The ONLY reason I applied for a DOT # was twice in about 3 yrs. I was flagged at a check point ( favorite places are right after a toll booth on the interstates, NEVER stop at a state rest area, these maggots hang out here , stop only at truck stops because its private property and they would get run off quick if they set foot on the property!!!!) when I was inspected the only thing they could find was no DOT #, was given warnings both times, told #3 I would be tagged "OUT of SERVICE", truck would sit till compliance or towed back to bussiness address!!!! When I told the DOT man if every person driving a light duty up to heavy duty truck has to comply with this new reg. its going to cost alot more to hire drivers, his response " Well maybe this will get companies to loosen' the pursestrings and pay a better wage for drivers" . I thought, you Dic@head!!! the bussiness is just going to pass this cost on to its' customers and thats the general public. Unfortunately this guy works for the government so he will just get another cost of living raise paid by the good ol' taxpayer. And also if you use a trailer they inspect that for compliance also. ( Lights, brakes, brakeaway, chains tires , inspections ,etc.) Watch out Pittsburgh because after August " HERE COMES THE PAIN!!!!!"

By JLWelding (***)

Date 08-19-2010 01:36

Shop wisely when you vote in Nov. Listen to what they say.

By MBSims

Date 08-19-2010 02:55

Interesting...

While it does not affect me, I thought I would check out what this new program is and who it applies to. It seems to be a replacement safety program for commercial vehicles that is not supposed to apply to any vehicles that were not already regulated under the old program. It is somewhat confusing to figure out who and what vehicles it applies to. They use the term "commercial vehicles" driven by people who must have a "commercial drivers license" and define them as follows:

From Part 383.5 Definitions -

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—
(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or
(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

Commercial driver’s license (CDL) means a license issued by a State or other jurisdiction, in accordance with the standards contained in 49 CFR Part 383 , to an individual which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle.

Hazardous materials means any material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR part 172 or any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR part 73.

It sounds as if you already were required to have a CDL for your vehicle, then you were supposed to have been keeping records under the old system and were already subject to safety inspections. However, I may be missing something, as the info on their website is hard to find and uses a lot of do-gooder jargon like "improvements in methodology" and "new operational model" that make sit sound like this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Here a link to their website, see if you can understand it any better: http://csa2010.fmcsa.dot.gov/

By MBSims

Date 08-19-2010 03:07

It seems that compressed gas cylinders weighing up to 220 lbs of acetylene, argon, oxygen are considered "non-bulk" containers, but are required to be "placarded" under subpart F of 49 CFR part 172 when transported on the highway because they are classified as hazardous materials under 49 CFR Part 173.

It would not surprise me if air and water are also considered hazardous materials...

By RonG

Date 08-19-2010 14:34

The Devils' Advocate here folks.

On one hand we B1%$ about under handed, under bidding, unqualified low lifes that srew up jobs as much and as often as they do wages. Not to mention the undocumented.

We demand more goverment control to rid us of this plight????????

And when it happens (it's never going be exactly what you expected) what do we do?

Old proverb "Watch you ask for, you just may get it".

By Pickupman (***)

Date 08-20-2010 03:43

It would not surprise me if air and water are also considered hazardous materials...

Funny stuff, no they aren't yet but I bet you could find an MSDS for them if you look. Sad to see the stupid stuff we have to put up with these days.

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 08-19-2010 19:52

MBSims, The catch-22 that you're missing is although they have trucks that are rated below 26001 lbs. you don't need a CDL license to operate BUT you are still considered a commercial driver if operating in a business and need to jump thru all the other hoops that come along.( medical card, hrs. of service, drug & alky tests, etc.) . The feds. have improved on this law including trucks down to and including 1 ton. I'm driving a 1 ton F350 and was failed for not having a mcs-90 financial responsiblity form which shows you have at least 1 mil. in liability ins., I wasn't aware I needed this form until I was asked if I transport engine driven welders, it's because of the fuel. The DOT man at the audit says this new program is FED. mandated and will include EVERYONE in business with a 1 ton or larger truck. I told him good luck with that task because your gonna need alot more labor to accomplish that!!!!!( he just smiled and said something about job security) I'm not here to whine, when the FEDS. send me the paperwork I will send them my MCS-90 and vouch that I have a accounting system in place for my" IN SERVICE" hours record. ( somebody gets a new job punching a time clock). I'm just here to state the facts and hopefully save someone some T&M. ,because from what I observed at this audit there were ALOT of shell shocked business people who didn't have a clue what they were in for!!!!! ( I'd say one out of ten were carrying any paperwork ) These people were movers, a towing/repo co. , an excavating co. and also a landscaper. Listen & conform or not but I've givin' you a heads up!!!!! From: PITTSBURGH home of the STEELERS and in Sept. DOT check points on ALL commercial vehicles " HERE COMES THE PAIN"

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 08-20-2010 13:26

That's funny, you need an official guv'ment paper, mcs-90 to show you have $1 mil insurance. I would have been a smart azz and showed them my insurance paperwork I carry in the truck that shows exactly what I have and said, "I suppose this don't count because it's not government paper?". These folks working for the government are getting a bit puffy in the head. I heard from a friend who has a guy trying to do fence on a military base. He had his paperwork in order and was waiting on the base officials to get the ok to go on the base. When they finally said ok he arrived at the gate and handed the paperwork to the lady and she looked at it and said it's expired and threw(literally) the paperwork back at him. He said it's not my fault you folks took so long to give the approval that it expired(7 days). Guy was so furious he was at the point where he wanted to tell them to get somebody else to fix the fence an pizz off. This was the second time he drove 200 miles to find out he could not do the work.

Log books, great more paperwork. I think we're trying to become more European. 30 hour work weeks, 6 weeks vacation. I'm out all day long and til the sun goes down to make money while I can so I can feed my family, pay my bills and now I can only work 8 hours a day if I have to drive 2 hours each way??? Don't make a habit of driving two hours each way for a job but have done it for a day or two. Next they'll be wanting to know what time you woke up this morning so they can put that on your "In Service" log, give less time to actually work. I blame this on folks that sit in an air conditioned office all day long with no real concept of how real construction works, just something they've read in a book or seen on tv. Then being cooped up in that office all day they are just like a prison inmate. All this time to sit around and think of new ways to complicate everything(or escape prison for the convict), except they(gov. nut) gets paid well for his part.

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 08-20-2010 22:53

Cummins, I had a Certificate of Insurance sent to me before I went and even had PA. DOT AUDIT typed in as certificate holder. This shows all coverages you have ( Auto,Liab.,Work Comp., Liab. Umbrella, and Inland Marine) but being in business you know that because 99% of your customers require this before work commences. Anyway that wasn't good enough, need the MCS-90 FORM because your moving engine drive welders!!!!! Only thing that cert. did was make my ins. agent call me in a panic wanting to know why I'm doing commercial trucking/your not covered for that. Straighten him out by faxing flyer I have about DOT "open house to educate the public" being held at Heinz Field and then an aggressive enforcement campaign to follow next month . After he read it he called to thank me and said he was calling alot of his business clients to give a heads up!!!!

By MBSims

Date 08-20-2010 20:23

Smooth,

I'm sure I missed more than that, as it was the first time I had ever looked at it! I don't see how they can apply the new program to trucks under 26001 lbs. unless the federal regulation has been revised. I did not see where that had been done and the CSA 2010 literature claimed that the scope of the program had not been changed. So if you can find where the wording is located that addresses vehicles less than 26,001 lbs., please point me in that direction. I do see where they say it applies to any size vehicle transporting "any material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR part 172", but there appears to be a "materials of trade exception" in 49CFR173.6 that would exempt vehicles carrying welding machines or lawn equipment with flammable liquid tanks, or vehicles carrying compressed gas cylinders weighing less than 220 lbs each when they are used for performing work and not being transported for sale. At the very least, you would have to have an attorney review all the weasel words they put in the regulations to determine if they really do apply to you or if the inspectors are just trying to make you think it applies.

Out of curiosity, when you got your CDL did they cover the log books and paperwork requirements in CDL training?

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 08-20-2010 23:01

MBSims, Had to get a Class B CDL back in 1999 when I bought a 18 Ton boom truck GVW is 33,0000# . Learned to drive in about 8 Hrs. took test and passed, didn't need logs because I was considered a day driver ( traveling within a 100 mile radius ) New rule is you have to document it!!!!

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 08-20-2010 16:56

Gee,

In NY, we had DOT inspections 20+ years ago. They put many a rig welder out of the welding end of the business, including me. I wonder is Cactus is reading these posts!?!?!?

In a perverse way, I was able to make more money consulting, using my knowledge, than I could be doing the actual welding!

You can be sure that the prime reason for these DOT checks, is revenue raising, and not the safety concerns that the politicians, the police and the DOT inspectors will claim it is!

Those checks WILL add to the general over-all safety however! Attrition alone will get many of the marginal vocational truck operators off the road.

The checks will let up after the TARP / Stimulus funds run out (Thank Obama for that seed money), the vocational truckers get fined into submission or fined out of existence!. They will never fully stop, because there is so much revenue to be raised by fining the uninformed vocational truckers such as plumbers, air conditioner repairmen and rig welders.

Joe Kane

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 08-20-2010 23:30

J.P.K., Your absolutely right, they let the carriers run past giving them a WAVE!!!! Meanwhile they have a scrap car hauler, ditch digger and me pulled over for inspection. My brother who runs over the road says thats standard procedure because the carriers have safety programs and depts. in place so its a waste of time to inspect them so they have to go after the "under informed". He says in last 6 yrs. he been stopped once for looking like he was laying on the steering wheel ( checked his service log and then let him proceed) He thinks its funny until now, because they finally got to him with the new electronic log. You have to push a button in morning to start P.T. and then wait 15 min. before he can move. Push button again after 15 min., and then your IN SERVICE with a little clock showing a countdown of your time. At end of time you start getting a countdown buzzer. After his 60 hrs. he has to take a 1 1/2 day break from driving!!!!! I notice before he would be gone for 60 days now he's home Sat. afternoon and leaves on Mon. afternoon to go back on the road , says he's not spending 1 1/2 days sitting in a truckstop in the middle of nowhere( job doesn't pay enough) I see him draggin' up and movin' to a broker co. soon so he can get rid of that electronic log. Oh well everybody got problems!!!!!

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 08-21-2010 01:30

Unconstitutional