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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / The Mosque
- - By rick harnish (***) Date 08-26-2010 05:49
Ya'll aint hit on this yet? I will.
Them ****ers need to take the state offered land and stay the hell away from ground zero. There is a matter of respect, and they ****ing well dont seem to understand it. If we allow this **** to occur,I will understand that this country has lost 100 percent of its backbone, and we are waiting for our new fundamental way of life. Take stock in prayer rugs, and determine which way is East.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-26-2010 11:12
I agree and disagree.

I agree that what your talking about is a matter of respect.

I don't agree that they don't understand...  They understand perfectly well.

Do all islamic folks hate the west and want to see it destryed?    No....   Only a minority of Islamics feel that way.

But that minority numbers in the hundreds of millions.   And they do very much actively seek our subjigation or destruction.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-26-2010 22:35 Edited 08-26-2010 22:42
Silence is consent...the so called peacfull majority is doing nothing nothing at all.
I spoke of this a long time ago...we are headed for sharia law.
Like the texas mercy killings
the NJ rape case thrown out cuz islam law.
the public calling from moderate (HA HA HA HA HA) imums for sharia compliance.
even Moderates are under radical doctrine no matter how you cut it.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 08-26-2010 21:27
And they should stop allowing Muslims that work in the Pentagon to pray on those grounds too.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-27-2010 02:03
I can go along with letting them point their rug at Mecca anyplace, but I think building a Mosque right next to Ground Zero is going too far. For those who want to build it, I don't think respect has any part of it.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 08-27-2010 14:12
That's the thing though.  It's not primarily a mosque.  It's a community center.  From what I understand the top 2 floors will have space for prayer although I would assume that some services will be held there.  There will be basketball courts, conference rooms and things of that nature.  The way people are acting one would think that there is a terrorist training camp in the basement.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-27-2010 15:01
oh that makes me feel better it not just a mosque.
i knew some day belivers in Christ would be beheaded ...... but 20 years ago i was told that dosent happen anymore...........or does it?
does it?
Can it happen here under sharia, i mentioned this alittle over a year ago.
Rape is now leagal in america based on sharia.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 08-27-2010 18:13
Don't forget everyone's favorite document....The Constitution.  Remember that little document.  If Sharia is to be implemented it would go under the rules dictated by it, right.  I have a feeling that it's not going to happen.  Irrational people are treating this like building like its a damn factory to build Muslims and that everyone in America will be converted somehow.

Is it in bad taste to build it that close to the WTC site?  Perhaps.  Are there laws that can keep them from building it?  No.  Since the building has been declared not worthy architecturally or historically for "protection" then there's nothing to be done.

IMO what will happen is this.  People are bit*ching and crying about this so NYC will "help" them build on another site using TIF or someother vehicle then people will bi*ch about tax money being pi$$ed off...AGAIN!

How about we build camps like Auschwitz and put all non-WASPs in it?  It almost worked for the Jewish Question, the Khmer Rouge, Stalin, Native Americans and countless others.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-27-2010 18:30 Edited 08-27-2010 18:42
How about we build camps like Auschwitz and put all non-WASPs in it?  It almost worked for the Jewish Question, the Khmer Rouge, Stalin, Native Americans and countless others.
what?.......Besides the only People who rounded up and camped people in America were the Socialist democrats.
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 08-27-2010 22:00
Socialist democrats???  No.  Irrational, scared and paranoid people.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-27-2010 18:55
tax payr money is fixing mosques all over the world aready..........
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-27-2010 16:05
JUST LIKE they way people act by calling TEA party people racists....youd think they have crosses to burn in their cars.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-28-2010 01:23
A mosque by any other name is still a mosque.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 08-28-2010 01:58
They would sure as hell throw a ***** if a Baptist or Catholic were praying in public on the pentagon grounds. Whats your point?
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 08-28-2010 04:49
Who would?  I'm sure it happens all the time.  What's your point?
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-26-2010 22:34
this is a profound subject with deep deep soul searching by all.
They have the right to build, yet many towns persuade other sensible religious and privet groups to move offensive establishments,so if the offensive act will not be changed to show respect for america then knowing the hurt it brings us any1 atternding is a te**orist by definition.
Hurting people everyday by supporting such a place.
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 08-27-2010 12:21
So essentially we should be so sensitive to their rights & feelings? But, they are not obligated to reciprocate. Darn, sounds just like my employer.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-27-2010 13:05
what im saying is it is up to them to stop the hurt and give up this insulting act.
If they cant do it then .....true colors are shining through.
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 08-27-2010 13:51
I couldn’t agree more, I guess I could have explained my self better but If they are not willing to even act like they care how others feel then I do believe I smell a Rat lurking near (a big lot of Rats). To me the motive seems very clear, I don't care how much they swear "I'm only going to stick the head of it in".

An old well-used term for this action is "Adding insult to injury", "Rubbing salt in to wounds". They are avid believers in these and other old adages like “Hold your loved ones close and your enemies closer".

Also they are smart enough to know if you want to build something big you first plan it out then you need to lay a very strong foundation and then you build on it a little at a time until the foundation is well established be it a Mosque or a Nation.

History seems to tell us alot about it but we are all so busy trying to keep up with the Jones's we fail to take much notice until it's to late.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-27-2010 14:42
with every one saying how tolerant and loving these people are...they sure dont manifest that claim. Look at the way they run places that they control.......are they moderate or radical?
I dont see this 99% moderate and 1% radical.
Im not getting caught up in PC (a rose is a rose).
proof is on them.
Parent - - By JLWelding (***) Date 08-28-2010 02:34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't miss a single issue. If you have not already done so, please add us to your Contact List or Safe Senders List.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

‘Ground Zero Mosque’ Imam Viewed Sanctions Against Iraq As an Act of Terrorism
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com

The Muslim cleric at the center of the controversy over the mosque near Ground Zero was quoted as saying four years ago that economic sanctions impacting civilians amounted to an act of terrorism.

Read The Full Story

I just  found this, interesting.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 08-28-2010 07:44
I deleted an earlier comment I made on this topic.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the issue aside from a level of respect should be shown.

One thing is alarming to me is the level of hatred we show as Americans for other cultures and nationalities.  It begs the question if those posting in here consider themselves both as Christians and Americans.  I hope not because it would be the epitome of hypocrisy.

I'm an American, but having travelled in so many countries around the world, I honestly see in some cases why we're so hated.  Many of us are tremendously arrogant, truly exhibiting a "holier than thou" attitude. 

Our Constitution gaurentee's freedom of religious choice and those of us who are truly Christians are to follow a non-violent doctrine; i.e., turn the other cheek when slapped.

If we continue on the path of thought I see in these posts do we end up any different than Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR?

It's unfortunate there are hateful and wicked people in all religions, should we just declare a genocide and an end to the human race?

I know, as a Moderator of this Forum I should hold my tongue but I too am entitled to an opinion.

Agree with respect should be shown, but lighten up on the hate side of things, please?
Parent - - By Jaxddad (**) Date 08-28-2010 11:24 Edited 08-28-2010 11:29
As Americans we have the right to be proud and yes a little arrogant we have earned that right by shedding our blood for others so that they can live! The problem with us now is that we have become to scared as a country to stand up and say what is right or wrong because we may offend someone. What used to be black and white issues we have allowed people to make them gray areas. At some point you have to draw a line and say thats enough and for me its the religious issue. I am tired of people stateing how pacefull and careing they are but they will not say one word about the ones inside their own community that murder. To remain silent is the same as supporting the cause. To build that thing where the towers fell is a slap to the face to all those that died that day, their families, and those that have died fighting the wars that continue today.

Good fences make good neighbors but, the fence will not matter if you let you neighbor pitch a tent in your yard!
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 08-28-2010 12:48
Yep, agree to some extent but lets not forget, virtually every war we've been in since ouir founding has also involved allied forces, so the arrogance need not be.  Also, not sure I remember what the actual numbers were but people from dozens (if not hundreds) of nations also died in the twin towers that day.

Further, I'm not really sure the twin towers thing was so much of a religious issue as a hatred issue.

The site and the lives that were lost on it and because of it does absolutely deserve the highest reverence, I just think we're aiming our pain and anger at the wrong source.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-28-2010 13:22
the day the so called "moderates" stand up and make weeding and denouncing these so called "1% radicals" a top priority I will not trust them.
Besides the actions they take as a whole are in line with the thought that they should rule the world, and rid it of all who are not of Islam.
they colonize , disrupt law of the land they are in, replace it with sharia and begin to oppress Christianity.
Prove that wrong.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 08-28-2010 13:33
Sounds very similar to the Crusades? 

Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian, I'm just saying we (American Christains) are far from being innocents.  I'm also not religiously trained, absolutely the further thing from an expert but isn't it interesting that Christians, Muslims and Jews all pray to the exact same God, the only differences being the words of the various Messiah's (as documented by men?).

Maybe Buddhists have it right after all.....
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-28-2010 13:46
They don't all pray to the same God...

To Christians  Christ himself is God,.

Christians die regularly when they proclaim the diety of Christ.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-28-2010 14:55
I think you have pushed my buttons Jon...  :)

Sounds like the Crusades?   Are you out of your mind?  Not only are you not religiously trained.. Your not historically trained.

The Crusades were a response to violent Islamics spreading through the Mid-east.. Compelling Christians to convert or die.  Not the other way around.

I don't believe in the romanticized version of the crusades that were part of western lore for so long... But I certainly don't look at the crusades as the modern revisionsts, who forget that it was the Islamics who swept through the mid-east and north through Spain and forced conversion, death and indescribable rape and torture upon Christians... Whose gospel is always spread through peaceful means.

Were the Crusades sweet and innocent... No.. But you need to look at the whole picture before drawing corollaries between religions.

Islam has not changed at all since those ancient times... Convert, Die or suffer at their bloody hand.....

Christianity has not changed either..  Grace alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-29-2010 01:36 Edited 08-29-2010 04:01
"upon Christians... Whose gospel is always spread through peaceful means"

You must have learned a different version of history than I did, unless You don't count the Protestants killed for herasy, and the revenge they [protestants] sought afterward.

Remember WHY Maryland was founded.

In the Crusades, more Jews were killed by Christians than Hitler killed in Germany. Right along with Muslims, gypsies, & garden variety heretics.

In My lifetime the Catholics & Protestants were killing each other in Ireland. We don't hear much of it now, hope it is finally over.
Parent - By HillbillyWelder (**) Date 08-28-2010 13:49
You are CORRECT!!! Everybody needs to look and listen to the Isrealies, they mave been battling the Muslim menace for eons, the Muslims couldn't give 2 chits about anyone but themselves and their stone age laws. Revolution is coming......look at Europe, over run with goat humpers..............thank god for the 2nd amendment..lock n load boys tha chits going to hit tha fan
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-28-2010 13:45 Edited 08-28-2010 14:02
Funny you say that.

I've been traveling the world for something like 20 years as well... And never Never NEVER.. Have I experienced the "Ugly American" people keep talking about... Not one bloody time.

While Overseas as a tourist,  I have been both verbally and physically abused by.. Germans, French, and Japaneese (believe it or not)

Do hundreds of millions of Islamic men women and the children that they brainwash using government controlled TV across the mid-east want to see America destroyed, and me converted or die?   Yes they do...   Does stating this make me somehow un-Christian?  How dare you suggest Christians are hypocrites because they can read the handwriting on the wall and aren't fearful to read it out loud. The number of Christians who are murdered in the name of Islam every year is notable.  Islamics mass murdered in the name of Christ?  Not in the last several hundred years.

I struggle with the notion of the government finding some excuse to stop these islamic haters from building their center near ground zero.  I also disapprove of the center being built there.. But my approval is not required.   It may be a horrible insult that we just have to bear if we are going to live by our own rules.

The "Holier than thou" folks in my experience are the ones who have been or are currently the Beneficiaries of American largesse. protection, disaster support and economic development..  These same "takers" of American resources, wisdom, money and military protection for the last 75 years are the ones who complain about our methods lke we are some rapatious criminal state who wants to take an imperialist route to make every soverign nation on earth an American State... What bull-****.    They "Hate" us because they have had seven decades to get themselves together and learn to take care of themselves, yet these nations still cannot.. They need us and they hate and resent us at the same instant.  Not wanting to admit it they fabricate little excuses like "the ugly American"

Edit:
The only ugly Americans I've encountered overseas were drunken spring break kids in the Yuccatan...  And there were plenty of drunken international kids right alongside them..  It's pretty hard for me to count them and judge them..
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 08-29-2010 02:38
We agree on this point:

"I also disapprove of the center being built there.. But my approval is not required.   It may be a horrible insult that we just have to bear if we are going to live by our own rules."

I knew I would be pushing a lot of wrong buttons and probably should have kept my fat trap shut (as usual :))  Nuff said from me. ;-)
- - By grizzzly (**) Date 09-15-2010 06:25
When I heard that their was going to be a mosque built on ground 0, I couldn’t help but to think of the Catholic church here in the town I live in it was built on the ruins of the pueblo of the native people that the Christians defeated when they came to this land.
I think this was done to send a message, I wonder if the Muslims are doing the same thing?

OK i will shut the F up now
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 09-15-2010 16:23
this man is not protected by freedom of speech

The man captured on camera ripping pages out of a Koran and burning them near Ground Zero in lower Manhattan Saturday -- the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks -- was fired from his job at NJ Transit, the New Jersey transportation provider told NewsCore Tuesday.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 09-16-2010 02:38
British take on Ground Zero Mosque, Here is what one Brit thinks about it:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

I don't remember if this has ben posted on the forum before, if so, here it is again.
Parent - By JLWelding (***) Date 09-16-2010 03:11
Thanks for that post. And God I pray people get there heads on straight. This has to stop.
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / The Mosque

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