I hate to keep posting so much, but Im in a tough situation. I just got my CWI in Febuary, and I got a job as an inspector in July, which before that I was a welder for seven years. It seems like every job I go on, there is a problem with embeds. I went on one today were a barjoist landed in the center of where two tiltup panels come together. The problem was that the embed on one panel was an inch and a half lower than the other. So the contractor put six 1/4" flat bars under the joist, and welded stringers along the edges to tie the flat bars together. So they shimmed up the joist. I couldnt find anything in the code book on this, and it wasnt on the print. I cant see this a being in compliance, but I need something in writing to reject it. Does anyone know were I can reference this information?
Thanks again
Chuck
Actually, don't you need something in writing in order to accept it? I would expect to see an approved drawing issued through engineering detailing the fix.
I would simply make a recommendation in your report that you found this situation and feel it needs further attention by the EOR for acceptance. It obviously needs to be at the correct elevation and needs some sort of filler. You simply found a situation and need to make sure it is corrected the way the EOR approves. I'm not sure it is written that "thou shalt not use shims", but it sounds like it is not by his design that these two items are not at the correct elevation.
Good Luck,
John Wright
I agree with John. I would simply note what you have observed and refer it to the engineer for resolution.
Chet Guilford
Let me ask one question: Is this a D1.1 application? If so, the code says (in part)... "no unspecified welds have been added without approval" ~ this is at Para. 6.5 in the 2002 edition. If D1.1 is applicable, you would also need to know sizes, lengths, etc., just a thought. Don't know if this'll help or not, keep us posted! This is in support of what Thirdeye said above.
I just did was Chet said and noted it and refered it to the EOR. That is one of my favorite sayings anyway. Just about everytime I reject something, the erector will ask me (Well how do we fix it?). I just tell them, (Ask your engineer). I cant tell you how to fix it, all I can tell you is it isnt right.
Thanks
Chuck
Chuck,
I think you did the right thing. You get in trouble if you recommend something and the EOR don't like your suggestion. It's the proper chain of command anyway. You just report what you see and let the EOR make the calls and the recommendations for the fixes.
John Wright
Shims are sometimes ( in certain parts of the good old USA) called filler plates. AWS D1.1 does indeed address these little rascals... Are the fillet welds in comliance with those specified for filler plates? Do the welds comply with Section 6 of the code (are they acceptable )? Has the project superintendent written an RFI requesting a fix (this is probably how she/he would have dispositioned this rework if you found the joist welded at an odd angle)? Just some food for thought.
Vonash
I would agree with all of the posts here. Just make sure this issue gets RFI'd or corrected. Sometimes if you don't reject something like this right off the bat(for not conform to drawing) it could get forgotten or worse covered with decking.
Just my thoughts,
Brian Maas
I concur with getting the Engineer involved ASAP. Personally, the fix I have seen most often applied to embeds where the joist shoe didn't land true (contacting a edge, a corner, or not-at-all) is quick-bolting a piece of angle iron under the joist to provide the req'd support. This can be problematic also, but if the Engineer specifies the anchor-bolt size, angle-iron dimensions, & fillet weld size, usually everyone can live with it. Not too many options beyond that fix anyway. Fill plates or shims can't usually be welded correctly (per D1.1) in the space available and may not provide correct support. Avoid caving-in to the contractor/steel-erector and demand an engineer's approved repair or be ready to accept blame when discrepencies are uncovered. Call the Engineer who signed the drawings yourself if no one else will.
hf1
Actually the fix the contractor did is a non-compliance to the drawings, unless the EOR has addressed this issue in his general details or notes, and therefore it should be noted as a non-compliance on the report to make sure it gets addressed by the EOR and not covered up and forgotten. And I agree, do not recomend fixes, but you can comment on your thoughts on the fix as far as code compliant, but it is still nonconforming to the drawings.
As a CWI-this question is really not that hard.
If you find something questionable...
See if the code addresses this exactly.
If it does not, present your case to the EOR (engineer of record).
Get his reponse in writing. Do not sign off on anything till you get his written response-period. He is the only one that can override the code.
Yes, you may catch crap in the meantime, but never compromise your integrity.
Good Luck
brande
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