Fillet weld break test

Date 09-29-2010 16:40

Looks like there was a fair amount of undercut on the vertical plate....hard for me to decide about the break test from the pics....good pics, I just can't tell if there was penetration to the root or not.

By flaguy

Date 09-29-2010 16:52

Thanks John. Unfortunately I no longer have the test so I can't look, but if I remember the the macro etch showed penetration just barely to the root, but not past it. Is it common for the weld itself not to break but peel away from the metal taking base metal with it like this one did? Thanks again.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 09-29-2010 17:19

From the pics, it looks to me like they had decent penetration on the right 2/3'rds of the plate, and not as much on the left 1/3rd. Yeah many times the weld just stretches and pulls a plug out of the base material.

By flaguy

Date 09-30-2010 01:55

Thanks again John. I appreciate the comments, they really helped clear up the questions I had on this break. Thanks for taking the time to answer, I'm sure others will benefit also.

By eekpod

Date 09-30-2010 10:22

nice pics, now remember the code says that basically in a 6" test coupon there can not be more than 3/8" LOF, and the plates bend flat upon themselves without breaking, so from what I see it looks like it passed. I don't see any LOF and it was still together and flat.
I don't know the process, but some of mine break just like that in the weld. Sometimes the plate splits down the center but either way you put the root in tension and look for and suspect areas.

By eekpod

Date 09-30-2010 10:23

also don't forget that it says to look for penetration "to the root, but not neccessarliy (sp) beyond". Thats the macro etch.

By flaguy

Date 09-30-2010 11:07

Thank you, I appreciate the comments - They help a lot. I'm glad to learn from the comments received from you and John that this a fairly common break pattern (I wasn't sure) and that it appears to be a good break based on what can be seen in the pictures.

By eekpod

Date 10-01-2010 10:19

yes very typical. Also I see you did not grind the mill scale off before it was welded. That is something I don't do as well when I give a fillet weld test, I leave the mill scale on and only let them use a wire brush for whatever rust may be on the parts. This is to duplicate "real life" conditions in the shop, if they can properly weld and pass the test with a little light rust and tightly adhered mill scale then I know any parts they weld should be fine as well.
Now when I give a CJP plate test, that I make sure the mill scale is off the backing bar and the faces of the bevels are clean. There is more time invested in a CJP and thats how we prep the bevels anyway.
Good Luck
Chris

By flaguy

Date 10-01-2010 12:56

Excellent points - Thanks Chris.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-01-2010 14:19

I agree. I set them up the same way. Also on most D1.3 fillet break tests. Not too many people bother to do any cleaning before they weld thin members of angle, flat bar, etc. Why should the test pieces be shiny clean.

It does depend upon the application though. There are some that have WPS's set up and want ALL their parts prepped before welding.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 10-02-2010 08:30

Chris,

"Also I see you did not grind the mill scale off before it was welded. That is something I don't do as well when I give a fillet weld test, I leave the mill scale on and only let them use a wire brush for whatever rust may be on the parts. This is to duplicate "real life" conditions in the shop, if they can properly weld and pass the test with a little light rust and tightly adhered mill scale then I know any parts they weld should be fine as well."

Real life conditions in the shop ???? - You mean you don't grind mill scale or rust off before performing production welds ?
Regards,
Shane

By eekpod

Date 10-04-2010 12:15 Edited 10-04-2010 12:17

Shane, correct, I'm not required to remove "tightly adhered mill scale" or light rust. Heavy rust and loose or flaking mill scale is removed. We use duel shield FCAW and it's not usually a problem.
Now CJP joints we do, just not on our everyday fillet welds. This is all D1.1.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-04-2010 12:50

Same here, FCAW handles the millscale pretty good up to a point.....however, heavy base plates usually have more millscale and need to be ground.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-08-2010 15:40

Here as well. It depends upon the scale, welding process, weld joint, etc.

When testing, I clean for butt weld tests. I don't for fillet break and especially if it is for D1.3. BUT, I have equipment sitting in the test area that the welder may use to further prep the parts if he wants too. Only if the company being tested for has requested to not prep do I forbid cleaning up the parts.

Stiffener plates put in large wide flange beams are seldom cleaned. Employers want to make sure the welder can accomplish that.

All good to go per D1.1, Clause 5.15.

Have a Great Day, Brent