Level II

Date 10-17-2010 04:44

I mean, incase the inspector get their training and examination from a third party company given by Certified Level III and not from the company, does he or the Inspector certified for Level II or NOT?

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 10-17-2010 21:46

if the companies qc manual and written practice allows for 3rd party qualifications for LVL 1 ans 2 , and there is a letter of appointment for the 3rd party LVLIII hes all set.
if not ...could be invalid.

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 10-17-2010 21:43

the company lvl III or Outside LVL III tests and certifies you.

By 803056

Date 10-17-2010 22:20

It all goes back to the Written Practice underwhich the inspector operates. The Written Practice is a document that describes how a company handles and administers it's qualification and certification program.

Briefly, there is no certification without the Written Practice that describes how the qualification requirements (education, training, examinations, and relevent work experience), how the inspector is tested to verify he/she has a working knowledge of the test method and company's procedures, and how the certification program is administered.

Attending a training program that includes an examination to verify the student stayed awake for the entire course is not a certification examination. Under the aspices of SNT-TC-1A or CP-189 the examination has to consist of three components. The level III providing the training as a third party is not necessarily authorized by the employer to provide Level I, II, or III examinations or certifications without a letter of authorization in accordance with the approved Written Practice.

Anyone interested in becoming certified to perform NDT should read and understand SNT-TC-1A, CP-189, or any other applicable document that defines the requirements for qualifying and certifying NDT personnel that is applicable to the work to be performed, i.e., ATA-105, NAVSEA TP271, etc.

Best regards - Al

By Richman (**)

Date 10-18-2010 04:18

It's outside company & certified level III who gives training & examination, not the company.Company is not part of this training and Examinations

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 10-18-2010 13:09

the company needs to appoint the Outside agency in its manual and written practice. If its not documented its no good.

By 803056

Date 10-18-2010 18:44

That's the point, the examinations must include the employer's procedures. The Written Practice developed by the employer (or the inspector if self employed) has to describe the what and wherefores of how the candidate is qualified, examined, certified, and how certification is maintained.

The WP also provides details of how the employer evaluates any of the services provided by an outside vendor, i.e., Outside Agency. Once the services of the Outside Agency is approved by the employer, a Letter of Authorization is issued stating that the Outside Agency is approved and authorized to provide training, auditing services, examinations, etc. on behalf of the employer.

Even in the case of ACCP certification by ASNT, the employer's Written Practice must state that ACCP certification is recognized as a means of aquiring certification.

Best regards - Al

By ziggy

Date 10-20-2010 21:01

the written practice is one of those documents that is commonly misunderstood or worse, overlooked. still, in the NDT world it is a required document.
companys that hire an ndt lab to do any ndt work can request a copy of the lab's wp and compare it to what the lab actually does. one case i witnessed the lab violated its own wp in the course of performing ndt work at a company that hired them. without the lab's wp no one would have been the wiser.
all of the written practices i have reviewed were generated by an ASNT Level III commissioned by the company that needed the written practice.
also, once the wp is created, it becomes a controlled document and needs to be treated as such. the company needs to comply with its wp.
ziggy

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 10-21-2010 15:55

I have audited places when asked about NDT and LVL III the say its outsourced, then i ask for the letter of apointment and Written Practice i get a blank stare "whats that?"

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 10-21-2010 20:39

If they have no in house NDT, they do not train and certify any NDT personnel, therefore do not need any "Written Practice". Their QA Manual may require something however...

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 10-21-2010 21:44 Edited 10-21-2010 22:14

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 10-28-2010 16:48

What about a case where a company wants in-house informational testing to reinforce confidence in the welder's ability to pass outsourced (3rd party) NDI, in particular PT.

My lead inspector and I just completed 32 hours of classroom time which included a general knowledge examination, a specific exam on 1417 and a practical exam using KDS, all supervised by a level III. My procedures are being developed to follow what we learned. From what I understand, and this is NAS410, I now require 130 documented OJT hours signed off and I am eligible to be called a level I tech. Another 270 hours following that and I am eligible for level II. My level III supervisor has to be delegated in writing by my company?

By 803056

Date 10-28-2010 17:14

If the NDT is informational only, i.e., not required to meet code and not reported to the customer, there is no need to be certified.

I provide training to welders on a regular basis so they can check their own work, but they are not performing the NDE as part of a documented inspection or test. It is not a contract or code required NDE.

The first step your company has to take is to develop a Written Practice. Your employer should retain the services of a third party (outside agency) to help with that task. The WP should address all the requirements of the applicable NDE standard, in your case MIL-STD-410.

The WP will define the requirements for qualification for initial qualification as well as the steps to become certified. The WP will also address how certification is maintained, how certification can be revoked, terminated, as well as reinstated. The WP will stipulate how many hours of classroom training (or homestudy) is required, the required relevant work, and the required examinations and test scores required for initial certification as a Level I, II, or III.

A system should be instituted to maintain a record of your training activities, O-J-E, examinations, etc. to provide objective evidence you have met the qualification requirements for initial certification as well as for the maintenence of your certification.

The WP will have to be reviewed and approved by your customer if you are involved in military contract work.

Since your employer does not have a Level III on staff, they will have to retain the services of an Outside Agency to develop and administer your qualification and certification program. The same Level III can also develop the NDT procedures you need to perform those NDE required by the purchase order (contract, project specification, drawings, etc.). The NDE procedures will also have to be reviewed and approved by the customer before being implemented. The Level III your employer uses has to meet the same qualification and certification requirements stipulated by your customer. That is, they may request copies of the Outside Agencies written practice, procedures, training outlines, certifications etc., which are subject to your customer's review and approval.

I hope this helps.

Best regards - Al

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-28-2010 22:33

I've read many posts on this since I started participating in this forum, but for some reason many of the things you said and the way you said them made a couple of items clearer to me.

Thanks Al for your time to share with us.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By 803056

Date 10-29-2010 03:59

Glad to help. That's what the Forum is all about.

Best regards - Al