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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Is D1.1 the main code for the D1 codes
- - By dschlotz (***) Date 11-13-2010 14:21
Does the D1.1 code stipulation, which allows contractors and manufacturers to test and certify their own welders, apply to all D1 codes? It is not specifically stated in D1.3, that I could find. I want to set up test procedures for a contractor so that testing can be done at his facility, under the supervision of their qualified person, and then I would destructively test the coupons and write the appropriate documentation.

As always thank you for your help.
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-13-2010 16:03
Many welder qualification sections practice what is shown in D 1.1 for plate, Shapes and HSS.  However, most of the other codes have significant differences in the way the test is administered, the coupon is prepared and tested, the results are reported and the life span of the qualification.  Sheet Steel is different, Re-Bar is different, Sheet Metal is different, Seismic is different, and pipe welding is different.  ASME and API are just two of the most common codes other than D 1.1.  LIke many other codes, standards, specifications, and recommended practices, they have such significant differences, that usually there is no way to cross qualify with a single test.

Often the D1.5 unlimited test can be substituted for D 1.1 testing, because of the similarities, but seldom can D 1.1 be substituted for D 1.5, unless the D 1.5 requirements are included at the time the test is administered.

EN and ISO standards for welder qualification cannot be harmonized with US standards.

Joe Kane
- - By dschlotz (***) Date 11-13-2010 16:40
More specifically, in D1.3  is the  contractor or manufacturer allowed to test and certify their welders, as it is in D1.1?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-13-2010 20:19 Edited 11-15-2010 13:11
Most welding standards allow the contractor to administer the performance test, do the evaluations, i.e., bend tests or RT, and certify their own welders.

That being said, the system is open to all sorts of problems. I saw one contractor actually grinding the bent test coupons to see how deep the cracks were. He deemed they were not too deep, pronounced the coupons as "acceptable," and completed the test report. In another case I was present when the contractor said the crack isn't that bad and certified the welder. One last example, the welders coupons were bent per API 1104 and the paperwork indicated they passed API, ASME, and AWS D1.1.

You can open yourself to a world of liability if you sign for work that you did not witness.

Best regards - Al
- - By dschlotz (***) Date 11-13-2010 22:27
The reason for my original Question is that D1.3 doesn't address whether or not contractors or manufactures can test and certify their own people as does the D1.1. That is what I need to know.  A guy that worked in the fab shop where I work as QC, CWI, fabricator and welder has moved on and wants to do testing in his new place of employment and have me test the coupons. I think that I understand your apprehension. I just want to know if it meets code standards. If it does not then it is real cut and dried and I can say no with the code to back me up.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-15-2010 13:29
I have the 1998 edition sitting on my desk and you make a valid point, it does not stipulate who is responsible for the qualification of welders under the D1.3 code. That being the case, anyone can qualify the welders and the contractor can accept previous qualifications from a lab, previous employer, or the bar tender at Joe's Corner Bar.

I believe it is standard business practice to recognize the employer is responsible for the work produced by their employees. The employees are legally shielded from liability unless there are extenuating circumstances. It is in the employer's best interest to ensure the employees are properly qualified (and certified where required) to minimize the chance an unqualified worker is performing work for which they are not qualified to do. Relative to welding, this creates a funny situation because welding is not considered a skilled trade by the federal government, thus the requirements differ from one state to another with regards for the need to be licensed or qualified and certified. Again, the employer is responsible for the work produced by their employees.

The bottom line is that your friend can do all the testing in-house and does not need the services of a third party.

Best regads - Al
Parent - By PlasmaHead2 (***) Date 11-16-2010 02:07
"Relative to welding, this creates a funny situation because welding is not considered a skilled trade by the federal government, thus the requirements differ from one state to another with regards for the need to be licensed or qualified and certified..."

Ahhhhhhhhhh.... its all so clear now...
Glad to know that my hands dont know a skilled trade to the govt....
So many horrible bitter snide comments just ran through my head that im going to go to bed instead of bring everyone down...
Night everyone.
- - By dschlotz (***) Date 11-15-2010 14:01
Thanks again Al,

I know that the best situation is to have a lab or a CWI do all of the testing. 

Dennis
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 11-15-2010 15:39
CWI's do not have any special authority for mechanical testing.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Is D1.1 the main code for the D1 codes

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