Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Looking for advice
- - By aedwelder (*) Date 01-08-2011 16:01
I am new to the forum and I was looking for some advice. I am 23 and I work at a small job shop in my area, mostly doing mig amd tig welding. I have done some stick welding but I would not consider myself a stick welder. I was an apprentice with this company for 4 years and during that time I also got a associates degree in Manufacturing Technology. I still have alot to learn about alot of things and being very impatient is one of my weaknesses. I have bought some equipment of my own trying to start a small buisness on the side. I have some in-shop equipment like a Syncrowave 250 and a Hobart 230. I recently purchased a Miller Trailblazer 251 NT because I am very interested in mobile work. I would like to learn more about mobile welding, especially pipe welding. I have not done much pipe weling of any kind. The downhill pipeline stuff really interests me. I realize I do not have the best equipment for that but I would still like to learn more about it. The problem is I really do not know where to start. I have been searching old posts on here and trying to learn as much as I can. I am willing to practice on my own.I have been looking into some classes at the local community college, but they are all full until the fall. If I was going to practice on my own what is the best thing to practice on, what size, scedule, etc. I would also like to know more about structural welding with stick and flux core wire and what materials are best to practice with. I apollogize for this post being all over the place. Any and all advice/help will be greatly appreciated. I really enjoy reading everyone posts and greaty respect everyone and the knowledge that they have. Thank you for your time.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-09-2011 00:22
Thank you very much for thinking that highly of my meager talents Jon.  I hope I live up to that kind of a reputation, both with knowledge to share on the forum as well as in my work at my fab shop and doing inspections. 

Now, AED...

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!  Glad to have you around.  Anyone still has things to learn and this is a great place to both share with others and to ask questions to expand your own knowledge base.

7018 is more than just a popular choice of electrodes for practicing your SMAW (stick) welding.  It is one of the most used Low hydrogen process electrodes because of several considerations and all the various grades of structural steel that can, and in many cases must, be welded with it.

Three things come to mind right off the bat with your questions: 
1) PRACTICE with the 7018 on everything from 1/4" to 1".  If you can carry a good bead in all positions in these ranges you will do well on any thickness of material. 
2) Study the Codes to see what you will have to do to be in compliance with them.
3) Get some print packs with all phases of the job-Architectruals, Structurals, Mechanicals, Electrical, so you can practice going through the plans for a job.  Look especially at the General Notes on the Arch's and the Struc's.  They will give you a lot of info on what the job requires.  There are usually Job Specs as well that can run several hundred pages long.  They really get fun to go through and find everything that applies to YOUR part of the job.

Now, we haven't even touched upon all the other things you need to consider to go into business for yourself: Contractor Licenses, Liability Insurance-make sure you get some that covers you for what you are doing, Workers Comp, Bonding, Incorporation, EIN (employer identification number), advertising-at least the local yellow pages, phones, fax, computer, cell, website, printer, billing program, steel inventory, etc.  Don't forget the expense of using pre-liens on your jobs.

And how about a Written QC program, safety program, HazMat program, OSHA ten hour certification, Safety harness certification, Equipment operator certified, Certified in all your welding processes you want to be able to use, Welding Procedure Specifications, etc.

Man the list just keeps going.   This is why you can't work too cheap.  It costs alot of money to be a ligitimate business.  Then, what happens when, as right now with us, three of your regular customers call and tell you they are filing bankruptcy.  Praise the Lord only one of them owed me money.  And it isn't a lot, though every penny is important in this economy.  Especially for us Mom & Pop shops.  Yes I am.  My wife and I work it.  My oldest son was my shop forman for about 12 yrs but he left this year and we have let all but one part time employee go.  It is that slow in our area.  Now my overhead is way more than my income.  Just the two mill liab insur will hurt your bottom line.  Then the workers comp.

Trucks to maintain, equipment to maintain. 

You need to really plan if you are serious about going into business for yourself. 

Just my two tin pennies worth based upon your post and Jon's comments.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-09-2011 14:45
I have to agree with Brent on his post. First, you have to have the drive to run the business, good and bad. Believe me, you are gonna run across times where the truck payment or insurance payment is coming up within the next few days and your gonna be wondering where am I gonna get the money for it so they don't drop me or come hunting the truck. I can say it will really try your nerves at times then throw into the mix the wife coming to you and saying, "Do you have house money?" on top of the truck payment that is due,....which you don't have. Around here $1mil/$2mil insurance, workers comp, truck insurance runs me just shy of $3000/year. Business license every year based on your gross income, taxes you pay on ALL of your equipment owned every year. Then you have wps which for me now is only about $300/year, luckily the AWSD1.1 is good as long as you keep welding that process, keep a log book. If your just starting out you'll be the welder, cleaner, assistant, secretary, owner and a whole host of other jobs. You will stay busy doing something most days of the week. I'm not trying to spook you just telling you how it is. I know several folks that have tried and get out of it after a few months or a year, not for the faint of heart. After you get some eggs in the basket and rolling along it gets better, not easier cause then you've got employees to worry about, bigger jobs and so on. I'm not quite there yet myself, this year looking at hopefully getting a helper full time......maybe.

As far as what to practice with. I'm no expert but I practiced on anything I had or that I could land for free. 1,2,3,4....6 inch schedule 40 running downhill, uphill, 2" and up heavy wall tube going uphill, tig roots, tig all the way out. Welded plates, more plates and when I was done I welded more plates, 3g, 4g or whatever. I do a bunch of x42/52 .250 wall pipe mostly but I know a bunch of guys on here talk about .500 wall downhill welding, 5/32, 3/16 6010's, puddle caps and so on. Heck, I'd weld a plate and if I botched it I would just run stringers up the plate to use the space available to play with the heat. Turn it up and see what it does, turn it down low and see what it does. I'd run weaves on plates just to play around and experiment with different techniques, angles, just to see what happens. Seems like I see a lot of A36 in the structural world around here. Pretty common but I'm sure there is a bunch of other stuff out there. A53 for pipe, X42/52 is the gas pipe(in what I have seen) but does go higher in numbers. Most of the stuff I practiced on was A53. Pulled off of jobs where they were replacing chiller pipes, sprinkler pipes and so on. It's round, its steel and I don't notice a difference in how it welds compared to the X42/52. I'd do the same kind of stuff on pipe. Run stringers around a piece that was to short to use, run uphill caps, downhill caps, long arc the rod, short arc it, turn up the amps, turn them down, speed up forward progress, slow it down and just play for hours and hours at a time. For me it made things a bit easier to figure out I guess. When I did something on a pass and you wondered why it did that you could think about how you ran than pass and say to yourself, oh yeah, when I long arc a 7018 it does some funky crap like this, maybe I stretched the arc to far because you know how it looks. What comes to mind is striking off on the bottom of a 6g, running uphill 7018. For me I had some trouble there, would strike the arc and pause to long before moving out. Would leave the nice little pitted mound of crap. Figured out I needed to strike the arc, get the correct arc length quick and move into my weave quickly.

I would buy cheapo rod from TSC or some other places to burn. Much cheaper than running excalibur's to practice with. Figured if I could run good looking welds with the garbage I got from there then when I went to some good rods life would be grand! Hope some of my babbling helps out, like I said, I'm no 15-20 year guy but remember how it was 3+ years ago when I was in your shoes and the things listed above are what I did until I could get back into the tech school. When I got in it took me 3 nights to pass my 3g for AWS, had my 4g unlimited in about a month. But, that's what worked for me, don't know if that will work for everybody.

Shawn
Parent - - By strother (***) Date 01-11-2011 13:44
Shawn ,think long and hard before you hire a fulltime helper. I'm not trying to tell you what to do or saying that it won't work but from my experience a fulltime helper only makes you money when you are working strictly for labor and material and you can charge for his labor plus a moderate mark up. If you are doing bid work the chance of bidding to low is always there and you wind up working just to pay your helper.I heard good rule of thumb before hiring a fulltime employee is to have enough money set aside to pay him 6 months wages. That way he doesn't take the job do everything right and get laid off because you ran out of money and you don't go broke trying to pay him. Of course I thought I was the exception to this and several other rules and it almost broke me. But  I'm still going scarred but smarter. You probably have already thought about all of this Just throwing out my opinion for what it is worth. I'm not saying I won't ever hire anyone again but right I do what Ican myself and use part time help when it is necesarry. When can actually afford the luxury of a helper then I'll get one.
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-11-2011 15:18
Thanks Strother, yeah, I don't want to hire a guy then lay him off right away cause work dried up. Would hate to do that to a fella. Sometimes I wish I had a guy that could weld a little to work on handrail at the shop when it's busy and I can be out making real money on a commercial job. I usually end up putting on my circus outfit and juggling everything to get the jobs done and saving money. Guess that's why they have temp services! Have thought about that a few times but when it comes to needing the help the jobs are already bid as me doing it by myself and have no margin for bringing on a temp. Or maybe it's not the margin but the money lost when I think about the job, what it pays and what I'll have left after paying an employee, then it's juggling time. That's good advise though, will surely keep that in mind.
- By JMCInc (**) Date 01-08-2011 17:30 Edited 01-08-2011 17:38
With structural steel, knowledge of building construction will give you an edge. The reason that I started doing all our own structural is because very few welding contractors know how to actually build something. I would have to basically do all the math, draw it, send it to the engineer, have a meeting or two, hold hands, deal with drama, then pay through the nose to have it welded. One time I found a little mom and pop outfit that had a very knowledgeable guy running it. Their price was a little high but they made my  life way easy. They got all our business. I never questioned their price. Then they got discovered. One to two week lead times became two to three month lead times. That's when I made the switch to doing it ourselves. Of course, now that things have slowed down, no one is doing much of anything.

Anyway, if structural appeals to you, get good at welding smaw in all positions. 7018 is a popular rod. Learn about bolting. Learn how to read a wps and what one should look like. You would be surprised by how many engineers don't know how to produce one. You will need to be certified in structural. Remember the mom and pop company? They were good servants. You can be a good servant and charge for it. Tommyjoking and welderbrent are good servants that come to mind off the cuff, although there are many that frequent this forum. They are proof that you can charge for your time and get it. A servant's heart will get you into the upper crust of clientele that are willing to pay for drama free service. It's all about service.

Well, you have to be damn good at what you do, too.

Jon
- - By aedwelder (*) Date 01-09-2011 02:19
Thanks JMCInc and welderbrent for your advice. I have been practicing with some different rod mostly 6010, 7014, and 7018. I have been running passes on scrap I have laying around. Welderbrent, I checked out your website a little bit, it was very interesting. I always find it exciting and inspiring to see other peoples work. Thank yall for your willingness to share. I forgot to add earlier that I am working on a trailer to put my Trailblazer on. I have really been torn between building a trailer and outfitting a truck, whether it be a skid or deck. I am having trouble on how to organize everything on a trailer. I have been looking at alot of rigs on here trying to get ideas. One major concern of mine is how to store the leads. I do not want them out in the open just asking for someone to steal them. I have about 150-200 feet of lead in 25 ft sections with Jackson quick trick connectors. Most of the rigs i see on here have them on spools and I have concidered making some of my own but I am not really sure of the pros and cons of the spools. Any advise, pictures, suggestions, experiences would be greatly appriciated. I know I am asking alot of questions, and I dont mean to be a pest, I am just eager to learn as much as I can. Thank you all for your time.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-09-2011 03:53
Not sure I can really advise on spools for leads.  In my particular use I don't keep a rig outfitted anymore.  Do more shop welding and inspecting so keep the trucks empty and load up what I need when I need it. 

As to my website, we lost the photo gallery a while back and it is very basic right now.  I need to finish getting my pics back into it. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-09-2011 13:40
Lead reels are GREAT ! However, they are not to good with "sections" of Lead. They work well with 1 solid peice. Tidwell reels are the way to go but they are not cheap. They ARE they last set you will ever buy and well worth the money. Trailer or Truck ? Go with a Rigged out Truck. In the Long run you will regret a trailer. I am not sure where you are working, but alot of places in the South will not let you in with a Trailer
- By joe pirie (***) Date 01-09-2011 15:47
Don't take this the wrong way i admire your drive and ambition. If your
going to go out and weld gate's, a little misc steel , farm equip your probably
more than capable of getting some work. If you plan on going out and compete
with seasoned rig welders you need to get alot more experience. i've seen
many young welder's that think that they can just throw a machine on the back of a truck and
voila there a rig welder. Then they get the chance to test for a job and have to weld out a 30"
pipe , Branch test, TKY 6GR and don't have a chance in hell . i've tested welders who drove over
a thousand mi to take a test only to be looked out on the root. If you read this forum youi'll
always see alot of highly skilled rig welders with tons of experience trying to figure out where to
go next. If you rig up and are not ready you will starve and become very discouraged. Your shiny
new rig will be posted in the for sale section. In my experience most of the companies won't even
let you test without the right equip , Lincoln rangers, miller bobcats, and such are great for the farm
they have no place on a pipeline,powerplant,refinery so if you dedcide to do this be real careful what
you buy. Best of luckto you
- - By aedwelder (*) Date 01-09-2011 20:36
Thank you all for your input and suggestions. No, I in no way meant that I was going to go out and compete against seasoned rig welders. I understand that it would take alot more knowledge, practice, and experience than I have now. I have alot of respect for everyone and what they do, no matter what part of the welding field they work in. I did not mean to belittle anyone or what they do and I apologize if I offended anyone.

As far as the trailer vs. truck issue, i see your point and totally agree. The only reason I was thinking of the trailer is because of the added costs of having a dedicated truck. I would really like to have a 3/4 or 1 ton truck but I am just not sure if I need to take on that added expense. That is why I figured I would ask the guys who have done it and have a greater knowledge of it than I do. As of right now my plan is to keep my full time job and just see what happens. The biggest reason I wanted to get a portable rig, of any kind, was to help me become a better welder and I thought I would enjoy it alot. I now sometimes get tired of being inside a building all of the time and I really enjoy the outdoors. I also felt like it would make me become a much better welder having to over come the obsticales of welding in the field. I also understand that the air cooled machinces are no the "mac daddy" of the engine driven welders but I figured it was a good place to start because it is a relativly versitile machine. I thank all of you for your time.
Parent - By 52lincoln (***) Date 01-10-2011 23:57
spend the money and buy a truck.i got an old chevy 1ton 4x4 truck that ive almost got rigged out.been putting it together off of money i make on side jobs.i too have a full time job working for the phone company,so im kinda in your spot.i pull a trailer with an sa200 on it, it works.but cant wait too get my truck rigged out.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Looking for advice

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill