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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Quality work/ Fair pricing
- - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 01-11-2011 01:34
Been reading the posts on welding rates and the notion you can charge BIG $$$$$ for your work, makes me chuckle, too much hype. ( sounds exactly what a motivational speaker for salesman would spew) I've found from being in business for 30 odd years that as long as you do an ADEQUATE  job and have a competitive price you are what the business world is looking for.  Examples I have found thru my own experience: Working a rehab of a steel frame parking garage , bid w/ contractor at very beginning of job. Negotiated price w/owner , engineer suggests weld inspector, start Phase 1 of job, inspector looks over work for about a week and finds no rework so owner releases inspector.  We finish job (phase 1) and I submitt my #'s for phase 2, use same #'s for repairs as phase 1, well guess what !!!!!! Contractor went shopping between phases and recieved a number $4000.00  LOWER than mine ( guess who got job??????) NOT ME .  The contractor who I've done millions of dollars work with pocketed the excess $$$$$ !!!!! ( When I inquired about this move they pulled, I was told  "BOB, WAKE UP ITS ALL ABOUT THE DOLLARS" its business, thats the way it runs).        Example 2 : Bidding a huge railing job but I'm short on my bonding power ( have about 6 other jobs bidding) so I go to G.C. I do alot of work with and ask them to bid ,( I will supply number, mobilzation,etc.)  Ends up we bid job together, but another fabricator comes in about 2/3's of price on bid opening, long story short, fabricator w/ low number gets cold feet & pulls out on a technicality and we are 2nd bidder so we recieve job. I figure G.C. 's going to be happy , just made them $70,000.00 for handling paperwork and floating bond. NOT. Ends up G.C. goes to low bidder of rail job ( THAT THEY DON'T KNOW FROM A HOLE IN A WALL) and shops another one of my jobs that was negotiated w/owner, and I provided pricing for and ends up giving them the job for $8,000.00 less than my negotiated number!!!!!! I'm contemplating my next step because the contract for the railing won't be signed for about 2 more weeks and I definitely don't want to queer that job!!!!!  So all you dreamers out there, take heed being the best/giving the best service, ETC. only goes so far. Remember " IT'S ALL ABOUT THE DOLLARS"    I'm looking forward to hearing from some of the wiser on this subject like Big K, Cactus, Henry, Joe P, Cummins, etc. on this subject!!!!!! From Sixburgh waitin on dem' Ravins to show up!!!!!!
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-11-2011 02:01
You are RIGHT on the Money, so to speak !! I have MANY customers that have pulled similar stories. One of the Drilling contractors, That I do TONS of work for, Refuses to pay over 55 per hour for a welder. No matter how bad they need you or what time of the night they call. One of my Best Friends runs this Company for some of the Southern States. He is aware that it is not right but they will not change it. So, we make up for it in the number of hrs charged. I have spent the last month with a Contractor on a VERY large Job, After all the meetings and Pricing and Planning. At the last minute, They decided to use their own Shop Welders ( most are illegal) and try it themselves, Not sure what can be done about it all. I know a few ways to throw a wrench in their schedule (and I have) but other than that all you can do is keep on keepin on. I have learned the hard way to get it on Paper BEFORE I lift a finger or give any Ideas. The best part is when they call you afterwards to fix their problem (and they do) They always wished they had of taken the first price ! I have made a GREAT living but "It ain't easy" nor is it for the Weak. Only the Strong will survive. It's like you posted elsewhere on here. There is ALWAYS someone looking for an opening or to tyr and knock you down. Like you, I have 29 years into this game. I'm to old to change now.
Parent - - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 01-11-2011 02:24
Cactus, Glad to see others have same problem, so to speak!!!! ( was startin' to think W.T.F. are they takin' me as some kind of Douche Bag!!!!) Like the idea about keepin' quiet about time schedules, materials, etc..... ALWAYS been a team player/very loyal to who I work for ,maybe" have to keep my cards closer to the vest" from now on!!!!! PITTSBURGH home of dem' Stilers'
Parent - By EMANRESU (*) Date 01-11-2011 02:36
Can't even count how many times companies have come to us wanting us to build a product, we work with them on the engineering side, r&d, prototypes and so on. Gear up for production only to find out they've gone to a smaller company for actual production.
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 01-11-2011 14:04
This thread reminds me of a sign I saw for sale on ebay yesterday:
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-11-2011 16:02
Marty,
Nice pic...thanks for sharing.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 01-11-2011 16:23
In my opinion, there is a difference in Rig Welders that are a one or a two man operation and the small contractors like yourself (and us) in terms of what you can charge.
If we bid a job, whether it's stair erection or mechanical piping with an hourly rate of $75.00 we would get zero work. One of my business partners thinks we should use that rate.
I tend to use a 45-55 hr rate depending on how many high wage men will work the project. We try to go after work that most other contractors shy away from in our area like underground mechanical piping that requires RT but it has mostly dried up.

We get (got) most of our work at local military bases but after the recession the companies that would NEVER bid on gov. work have flocked here because non gov. commercial and light industrial work dried up. So now, if we team up with a contractor to bid a job, instead of eight companies bidding that job, there may be 25. Out of those 25 you can bet a few of those companies are waaay low but they get the work...and you don't. We have done quite a bit of rework in the last couple of years due to horrible work by the successful contractor but that is living on the crumbs instead of the main course. I have posted some of the pics of the shoddy work in other threads. Coming from the nuclear world it still amazes me that the quality (or rather the lack there of) if often allowed on these projects often by unqualified, low paid welders or illegal low paid welders. Either way, not a good recipe to stay busy and profitable in the current economy in my area.

I do weld inspections on base also and the craftsmanship is usually not good and sometimes horrible. But if they can get by with it they will.

You kind of have to play with the cards you have, If you have to travel 100 miles to a market that has plenty of qualified local contractors, your travel/per diem cost usually puts you over the top on what the market will pay.

If you are a rig welder or a small contractor that has the opportunity to get $75.00/hr for your wages I'm happy for you. I think you deserve it. It's just not possible for all rig welders and all small contractors to consistently get that rate no matter how good you are unless your target market and area will bear it.

In 1999 to 2001, I was a one man operation and did moment welds locally averaging $1000.00 per day. The next wave of moment weld design buildings were done by non English speaking stick welders that had porosity and slag inclusion on the cap and their rods were kept in their buckets with a shirt covering the top over the weekend... you know, just in case it rained. The UT/CWI must have been using the Farm Code.

>"BOB, WAKE UP ITS ALL ABOUT THE DOLLARS" its business, thats the way it runs<


Unfortunately true. We mostly make a living either being or teaming with the...wait fot it... low bidder.
I miss 1999 to 2001.
- - By Tim655 (*) Date 01-11-2011 13:04
You are so right, I have a customer who thinks I am the best guy in the world when I get out of bed to fix his problems, but at 9:00 A.M. and someone is $2 cheaper  theuy get the job. The good thing is those guys never last long, but they are a pain while they are here. They cant be doing business "right" if they are only charging $45 or 50 an hour......
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-11-2011 13:36
You make my point very nicely. Those are the 10% of the client base you want to fire.

A fair day's work for a fair day's pay.

There will always be bottom feeders waiting in the wings. If those are the people the contractor wants, market your services elsewhere.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By strother (***) Date 01-11-2011 23:56
I raised my rates right before the recession started for the sole purpose of "firing bad customers ".  By the time the recession was in full swing I had fired all of my bad customers and laid off half of my good customers .
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-12-2011 05:21
Times are so bad, I had to rehire the 10% I just fired! ;)

Best regards - Al
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-12-2011 14:32
OUCH!!  It's one thing to have a customer come crawling back because he finds out you are the right guy for the job and in the long run saved him money.

But to have to try to gain back customers that you basically sent packing, that's where it is prudent not to 'burn your bridges' while letting go of the dead weight.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Quality work/ Fair pricing

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