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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Tuneing a 2008 6.7 Dodge
- - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-09-2011 19:19
Can anyone tell me the best system for a 2008 Dodge 6.7 ? Do I also need to tune the Tranny ? I tried a Bullydog and it killed the factory computer in less than 5 miles.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 01-09-2011 19:41
Shawn probably has a good answer
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-09-2011 19:45
I was kinda hoping for him to chime in here.
Parent - By JeremyW83 (***) Date 01-09-2011 19:46
I would look into EDGE as well as Smarty MAD Electronics.  I believe ATS might have what is called a CoPilot module that is for controlling the tranny.  Cactus I know where there is a guy up here in north texas that is a tranny guru for Dodges.
Parent - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-09-2011 20:05
I have the Black Maxx made by H&S Performance along with all the deletes and 5-inch stainless steel exhaust. Gained 2 to 3 miles per gallon, and really woke my 2007 cab & chassis up.
H&S is working on transmission tunes now for the cab & chassis, I think they already have them for the pickups, but don't hold me to that statement!

http://www.hsperformance.com/cummins-67/
Parent - - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-09-2011 20:17
This is one of the best Dodge sites I've found. This is where I learned about H&S. A lot of threads about problems with Smarty.
H&S monitors this site, (they have their own too) soon as someone asks a question H&S is all over it like white on rice!

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/

http://www.hsperformance.com/1/
Parent - - By CK Welding (**) Date 01-10-2011 00:38
H&S mini max all the way.  My 6.7 is turning 600 horse now and I haven't had any problems.  Just black smoke and more power.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-10-2011 00:41
What is your Mileage like ?
Parent - - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-10-2011 00:50
I don't know if my transmission will take the 495-HP setting, and not sure if I'd need an auxiliary fuel pump either.
On the highway I get 19-MPG, truck weighs just over 9,000-pounds. Thats with a 330-pound aluminum flatbed.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-10-2011 00:58
This Truck weighs 12,500. It is a 2008 Cab and Chassis.4x4 4 door with Lift Kit. I pull a 40' Fifth Wheel with a 2400 lbs Tongue Weight. It has a Herrin Bed on it now that I have modified. I am haveing a Bob King built for it
Parent - - By burleigh26 (**) Date 01-10-2011 01:06
cactus, what kind of mileage you get in that 08. i have one to, made a cold air intake for it and truck wouldn't run, it was getting to much air.  im getting 14 mpg, would like to chip it but worried to mess the computer up.  i see you did that sucks
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-10-2011 01:15
I get between 12 and 14. I get about 10 with my Trailer on it. The Bully Dog messed mine up. I have been told that the Tranny has to be tuned as well. I will be the first to tell you, I AM NO MECHANIC ! I have a freind who has one. He spent about 6k on H&S tuners and everything else you can buy. He gets about 25 mpg and about 600 HP ! I'm just not sure it is worth all of that.
Parent - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-10-2011 01:47
$6,000.00 Holy crap what all did he do?
Here is my rundown. Black Maxx $1,200.00, H&S Pillar mount $80.00, H&S pyro connection $50.00,
H&S EGR delete kit $100.00, H&S EGR plug $15.00, H&S stainless steel exhaust $619.00, S&B cold air intake $289.95 = $2,353.95
Parent - - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-10-2011 01:13
If I remember correctly Sun Coast has a upgraded flex plate for the Asian, and working on a torque converter.

http://www.suncoastconverters.com/dodge/dodge_products.html
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-10-2011 01:15
Asian ? Now you lost me
Parent - - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-10-2011 01:17
You don't have an automatic?
Parent - By JeremyW83 (***) Date 01-10-2011 02:49
Hes talkin about the Aisin Automatic Tranny.  Very good tranny from what they used to have.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-10-2011 13:34
Yes I have an Automatic
Parent - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-10-2011 15:21
Far as I know you have an Asian then.

Does yours shift a little funny from 2nd to 3rd? Or is it 3rd to 4th? One of them anyway.
I'm hopeful when H&S comes out with the shift turns they fix that!
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-14-2011 13:25
Sun Coast, that's the other one I was thinking about.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-14-2011 13:33
With the gas world horsepower is king. In the diesel world you can think horsepower but what you have to consider when thinking about what driveline components will handle....in diesel world is the torque. On a gasser typically torque is equal to or less than horsepower, shorter stroke on the engines, wimpy gas engines, etc. On diesels from my experience and looking at lots of numbers of guys on the dyno's, running engines on dyno's diesel torque numbers are pretty close to double your horsepower. Not exact by any means but it gets you real close. So you'd have to figure if your running 495 horsepower, can you driveline handle nearly 1000lb-ft of torque. The only exception to my rule was a 93' model dodge with a 12v. He had 350hp or a bit more and cranked out over 900lb-ft of torque. He was shooting water/meth with it and don't know if that had something to do with it but we both talked about how odd it was when everything else was typically half.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-17-2011 02:59
The only reason You are getting really high torque from Your diesels is because You are turbocharging them. Compair a naturally aspirated diesel to a naturally aspirated gas engine, and the diesel doesn't look so good.

Torque in foot pounds X RPM, divided by 5252 = Horsepower

My best guess is that Your friends 900 foot pound engine made well over 400 HP. What RPM did He make that 900 foot pounds at? How much boost was He running, 30+ PSI ?

'60s 4 barrel carb car engines made about 1 foot pound of torque per cubic inch [stock] at the torque peak, more agressive cams could rase the RPM of the torque peak to increase horsepower, but low end torque suffers.

Diesel engines have little compressed volume in the combustion chamber, so cam lift and duration have to be limited to avoid valve/piston interference. This causes the somewhat lower torque of a naturally aspirated diesel.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-17-2011 14:07
Actually his horsepower was less than 400, somewhere around 370 maybe, it's been a few years since we did the dyno and he did that but I remember talking with him and saying, "What the......" and both of us standing there and scratching our heads.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-18-2011 04:03
His torque peak must fall at pretty low RPMs.

On a naturally aspirated gas engine the HP peak is usually about 2500-3000 RPMs above the torque peak.

With Your computer controlled [and limited] turbo diesels it all depends on what the computer will let happen.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-11-2011 17:50
I've heard a bunch about TST and Smarty. I have a friend who has this stacked and says the truck runs like a raped ape. But he also has a larger turbo and the tranny has been gone threw. Seems most of the chatter is ditching the exhaust for something that breathes better, egr deletes and so on. Choices for programmers are many but like I said, have talked to lots of folks running Mad Electronics Smarty and have yet to run across a unhappy guy yet. Knew a guy that dyno'd a 05' with a diablo tuner that gave him 160+ hp with just that programmer. He had it stacked with a TST and something else and would eat corvettes for lunch. I know a few guys personally that have stacked and twin turbo'd their trucks and are confirmed at over 825hp, I have stood there and watched them on the dyno. Sure is a sight to see them hook to a sled!

I'd surely get some gauges on it, boost, egt, rail, tranny temp before going hog wild. Somewhere around 1250-1300 degrees on your egt and your turbo's gonna start thinking about quiting it's job. Have talked to guys who have melted them down. Don't seem to be much out there as far as tuners and the 6.7 though. Smarty, edge are the bigger names. Seems edge has the Juice with attitude monitor, you get readings from it I believe. Also think Quadzilla has something like that but not 100% sure. Get ahold of some guys like Geno's, Scheid diesel, some of the top mentioned names out there....kinda like Cactus on this board!! LoL!!

http://www.scheiddiesel.com/user_pages/home_0.shtml?page=Home

http://www.genosgarage.com/

They'll be able to find out what your end goal is and suggest tuners, gauges, any tranny mods etc, etc. There's another site that's real good, http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/ Top over there(Lary Ellis) is a good guy. Got my Glacier fuel boss through his store and been chatting with Lary over there for almost 5 years now. His site and Cummins Forum are about the top two in my book when it comes to Cummins knowledge and folks that will help you out. Seems like the 6.7's are unit injector engines with most likely a low pressure pump but that's just going by what the big diesels were like back when I worked on them. Not sure if they are working on high performance injectors, bigger tunes or what with these engines. Word on the street is you can go 60 extra hp before it becomes trouble for the tranny. Not seeing to much on tranny tunes and such, might be some out there but get ahold of Geno's or Scheids and they'll point you in the right direction that's for sure.

One things for certain, you add one thing it needs other things. Add a tuner, you need gauges, more tuner and you need more fuel, or your buying a Southbend clutch or having somebody put input shafts/output shafts and valve kits in your auto. More tranny equals bigger tuner or bigger injects....then you need more turbo, its a vicious cylce thats for sure.

Shawn
Parent - - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-11-2011 23:47
Shawn most of what you posted applies to the 5.9L. The EPA loaded down 6.7L is a different story. That EGR has to go, it is killing the engine with every mile. First problem it causes, is the turbo has to be cleaned, running the exhaust brake 100 % of the time helps! But no doubt about it, the EGR, and DPF gots to go!

The Black and Mini Maxx has gauges included, gauges alone can cost 6 to 700. $
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-12-2011 14:23
Your right there Iron Head, those guys I talk about have 05' or so 5.9 common rails. Don't know many guys with the 6.7 and looking at the forums, aftermarket sites it don't look like they offer much. I know several have done egr deletes and 4 or 5 inch exhaust and have praised better fuel mileage. Those tuners are not cheap thats for sure. Gauges on my truck(02') were around the $4-500 area after gauge pod, egt probe but part of that may be the dipricol gauges I bought. Probably could have got cheaper gauges but the dipricols with the led's looked best. My friend with the 05' has egt, boost, tranny, manual rail pressure gauge and fuel pressure with the airdog. He's probably got $1000 in just that easily not to mention the tst, smarty, big azz turbo, tranny upgrades, higher output cp3 and he easily has $5000 piled into it, that truck will flat out move though. He's let me drive it a few times.....WoW!!

I see most guys talking about Smarty or H&S for Tuners on their 6.7's. Looks like H&S has a transmission tune available. Black Max puts out 120hp on level 4 with dpf and 175 with dpf delete according to their site and comes with monitors you can see right on tuner. Throwing that much coal to it though and you might end up needing to upgrade the fuel pump to a Fass/Airdog or Glacier to feed the beast. Then again, more fuel, more turbo rpms and boost.....that vicious cycle I was talking about.

http://www.hsperformance.com/performance-tuning/

http://www.madselectronics.com/
Parent - By Iron Head 49 (***) Date 01-12-2011 17:34
Shawn I haven't put my Black Maxx on the Hot, (175-HP) setting. Reason why H&S said I didn't need the extra fuel pump, but it's the way they said it, if you know what I mean.
I tow on the 60-HP setting, and run around empty on the 120-HP setting. I can't wait until H&S comes out with the transmission tunes for the Cab & Chassis! Before this truck I had a Ford with the TorquShift transmission, I really liked the way that tranny shifted compared to this Asian!
- - By Buser (*) Date 01-10-2011 20:12
I used the smarty JR, Rolling smoke EGR deletes, and 4" MBRP stainless exhaust.  I have no regrets and will never go back to stock.  The smarty line and the H&S seem to be the best for our engines. With stock head bolts and tranny I run the stock tune on my smarty which feels like alot compared to stock.  To add over 90hp to a stock engine and trans is making a very expensive grenade!! Not sure but with the variable vain turbo don't you need a waste gate to up the hp more than 100 over stock???
Parent - By JeremyW83 (***) Date 01-11-2011 00:41
Off of Dodge's sit-
6-speed automatic AISIN AS68RC commercial grade transmission.
Includes:
•Auxiliary Transmission Oil Cooler
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-11-2011 18:03
I'd say the stock turbo is limited in what it can produce as far as psi. I know on my 02' thats around 35psi is the limit of it's efficiency, over that and your just spinning your wheels sort of speak. Add to much fuel and the stocker might go warp speed and then it's just a matter of which part of the turbo is going to come threw the hood first. With the variable vane and electronic controls it may pitch the vanes so slow it down in some way to keep this from over speeding but with a tuner on there it may override or give false readings in order to gain more boost to compensate for the fuel added. If this was the case then I'd say you'd have to have some sort of manual waste gate to prevent grenading a very exspensive turbo. Just a guess though on my part....

One guy I know has a mega cab and was pulling the sled one night. About halfway down the track I'd hear this fluttering noise from his truck. Went back and talked to him about it for a bit. Said that noise was the head fluttering on the block, picking up and going back down due to the amount of boost he was pushing, basically loosing boost from between the block and the head as the boost pressure picked the head up. He was running twin turbos and had about 4 tuners stacked on there with dual cp3's, and lord only knows what else.
Parent - - By JeremyW83 (***) Date 01-12-2011 01:52
When are we gonna get to see pic of your new rig Cactus?
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-17-2011 14:14 Edited 01-17-2011 14:21
It will be a Month or so before it is done. New Bed, Polishing the Machine, Chrome for the Reels. etc... It is not going to be a Brand New Truck. I have decided to Trick out my 2008 Black Dodge Rig. I am having a Leather Interior put in it. As well as new Rims, Lift Kits, Stereo, Tuners etc...
Parent - By JeremyW83 (***) Date 01-18-2011 01:30
Sounds cool.  On another note how much is a Vantage 300 with 2000hrs on it worth?  Im looking at one but I think he wants too much for it.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Tuneing a 2008 6.7 Dodge

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