ADA handrail on ramp?

Date 01-25-2011 19:22

Got some questions to run by anybody who knows. Bidding a set of handrail on a ramp, has to meet ADA. The height, etc are not a problem. This is something that they just found out that they need after an inspection. This is a public building, gub'ment building. They have a new sidewalk, exactly 5 feet wide. The length of the rail is gonna be 31 feet, times two. On one side I need the extensions off the ends, 12" minimum. On the other side the sidewalk connects with another sidewalk that does a 90. I cannot have the extension on this one as it will interfere with the walkway so this breaks back as a corner.

I've got everything laid out, getting prices and so on. The only thing I am running into is mounting the railing. Now, ADA says the sidewalk has to be 5' wide, as it is. The sidewalk will be backfilled on either side with dirt to the sidewalk height by the way. If I mount the railing in the sidewalk concrete I'll have to core drill off the edge in order to not crack the new sidewalk that I don't want to replace, but if I do that then I take away from the total width of the sidewalk, 5 feet. I've considered doing post holes and setting the rail on the edge of the sidewalk but then I read section 405.9 for edge protection in the 2010 Standards: Titles II and III, page 127. If I'm reading this right if the dirt is up to the height of the sidewalk or a max of 1/2" below and extends out 12" minimum that will be good? On the other side I think there will be a problem though.

The sidewalk runs parallel to the driveway, they have some dirt there now but I'm not thinking it is going to stay there. If it does not stay there(the dirt) and I have a 6" drop off I have to move the handrail in a minimum of 12", which means my 60" sidewalk is now 48". Would the contractor have to extend the sidewalk in order to keep the sidewalk 60" between the rails? I see 405.5, clear width states "The clear width of a ramp run and, where handrails are provided, the clear width between handrails shall be 36 inches minimum". I'm thinking that this means I can set my handrail 12 inches in from the edge of the sidewalk for my edge protection and still be within their guidelines? With the one side being back filled with dirt I can set it against the sidewalk edge and the other side(parking lot side) I can core drill and set it 12" off the edge to the inside of the sidewalk and I will meet the requirements?

I think I need to talk to the head cheese again but he had nothing to offer up as far as ADA, kinda looked at me and said, "they have it on their website". I just don't want to assume something and get out there and have the inspector say, "this dog ain't gonna hunt". Better to do it right and know what the heck you are doing before you start than to have to fix it after you think your all done.

Thanks for any info or muddy water clearing,

Shawn

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 01-25-2011 19:55

Shawn, Since this is a Gub'ment Job, there should be one of their inspectors noseing around somewhere. (probably in his truck napping) I would just ask him what he will want.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 01-25-2011 22:25

I think I'll give them a wake up call tomorrow and do just that.

By waccobird (****)

Date 01-25-2011 20:10

Shuawn
All you need for ADA compliance is a clear 36"'s. check 4.8 Ramps.
http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm
Good Luck
Marshall

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 01-25-2011 22:26 Edited 01-25-2011 22:30

thanks Marshall, that's a good link! I guess I'll ask the inspector about the pipe size as well, ADA says 1.250" to 1.500, the handrail existing on the job is 1.660 O.D., my steel guy says that's what everybody uses for pipe handrail. Wonder if they'll squak over .160" of an inch over! If I don't check they'll darn sure say something about it!! LoL!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 01-25-2011 23:49

If you do check they will just say 'the code says 1.5" max.' Most only look at it and if they do measure they hold a tape up to make sure it isn't way oversize.

Everyone I know uses 1 1/4" pipe, 1 5/8"OD, because it is easier to get, bend, and find fittings for.

IBC allows much larger. I understand keeping it down for a comfortable grip for elderly and handicapped, but there should be reasonable allowances.

Never wake a sleeping giant. It will only cause problems.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 01-25-2011 23:56

Yep, that's what everybody uses around here, 1-1/4".

By strother (***)

Date 01-26-2011 00:24 Edited 01-26-2011 00:27

I did a bunch of handrails a few years ago for a government housing . The inspector had a guage that he had made to exactly 1.5" . If it wouldn't fit over the pipe you were screwed. Luckly the lady who managed the apartments warned me ahead of time . I used 1" pipe on those jobs . It looked silly but they were happy. Since then I always ask. Everyone else is fine with 1-1/4" pipe.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 01-26-2011 03:58

It sounds to Me like the existing rail is 1 1/4" pipe, the last versions of ADA I have worked to [last summer] I think allowed this diameter. I would check the code again, and determine if the specificattion is the nominal pipe size or the outside diameter. I recall the maximum OD being larger than 1.5".

This was for a commercial building, is it different for Govt?

The specified hight of the bottom rail has changed in the last 6 years, be sure You are current there too.

I recall having to provide 36" minimum between the railings, no mention of 5' minimum overall ramp width.

I don't have a printed copy of the code handy.

Some inspectors are tougher than others, I built railings for a ramp that had a landing short by a couple inches. The first inspector wouldn't pass it, but another did.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 01-26-2011 12:04

Thanks Dave, I'm going to get ahold of them today and find out exactly what they want. According to ADA's info and drawings it's 1-1/4-1-1/2" OD. I was thinking one inch might be the next step. Seems like the bottom rail, guard was set so a 4" sphere would not pass between it and the surface, to keep wheelchair castors and crutch tips from slipping thru.

I was going to print it but looked at how many pages it was, then printed just what I needed!

By waccobird (****)

Date 01-26-2011 12:07

Shawn

This from wikipedia

Various model codes—The International Code Council (ICC) and National Fire Protection Association (NFPA)-- and accessibility standards—ANSI A117.1 and the Americans With Disabilities Act Accessibility Guidelines (ADAAG) -- refer to handrail dimensions. Current versions of these codes and standards now agree that handrail is defined as either a circular cross section with an outside diameter of 1¼" (32 mm) minimum and 2" (51 mm) maximum or a non-circular cross section with a perimeter dimension of 4" (100 mm) minimum and 6¼" (160 mm) maximum and a cross section dimension of 2¼" (57 mm) maximum. In addition, the International Residential Code (IRC) includes a definition of a "Type II" handrail that allows for handrail with a perimeter dimension greater than 6¼" (160 mm).

The IRC and residential portion of the 2009 IBC define Type II handrail as follows:
Type II. Handrails with a perimeter greater than 6¼ inches (160 mm) shall provide a graspable finger recess area on both sides of the profile. The finger recess shall begin within a distance of 3/4 inch (19 mm) measured vertically from the tallest portion of the profile and achieve a depth of at least 5/16 inch (8 mm) within 7/8 inch (22 mm) below the widest portion of the profile. This required depth shall continue for at least 3/8 inch (10mm) to a level that is not less than 1¾ inches (45 mm) below the tallest portion of the profile. The minimum width of the handrail above the recess shall be 1¼ inches (32 mm) to a maximum of 2¾ inches (70 mm). Edges shall have a minimum radius of 0.01 inch (0.25 mm)

I try to catch all the detailer mistakes before they get to the shop and when an engineer/designer specifies 1 1/2" handrail I insure that our detailer understands that is usually a reference to an architectural tube and we are a structural shop and use pipe so detail for 1 1/4" std pipe. If the engineer has a problem with it it comes out in the approval process. This has yet to happen.

Just my ¢¢'s and experiences.

Again Good Luck
Marshall

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 01-26-2011 14:42

Thanks Marshall, I picked up the latest IRC Residential a few months ago to do a job and the city it fell under used 2006 IRC. Asked them if it mattered and believe the guy said well if it's different than what ours is it would fail. Still ain't buying a 2006 book, I'll just call and bother them!

I remember seeing what your talking about in the IRC book. Gonna give the guy a call today and confirm what is in his mind though. This code is almost as nutty as welding code!

Shawn

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 01-26-2011 20:12

Ok, that was simple, took Catus' advise, called the ADA inspector. Got all the details hashed out. Guardrail on bottom of handrail set at 4" off the surface takes care of the 12" edge protection. Handrail size, 1-1/4" is good, now to finish the bid and get it in.

By Eric Carroll (**)

Date 01-27-2011 04:25

Hey Shawn, a few years ago we did the rails at the new Nashville code office. Had historic, codes and ada all arguing about who trumped who. We ended up with everyone giving some while still trying to push their code. The rails look a bit goofy and too tall, but its what they wanted.

By jpill

Date 01-27-2011 04:38

ADA stuff is funny sometimes welded sink mounts for the stadium at the hs I teach at. The height they were mounted at seemed to high to me but they were what the code said, my best friend was the plumber on that job and said they run into ADA stuff like that all the time.