Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Gasless FCAW Polarity issues?
- - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-09-2011 19:47 Edited 02-09-2011 20:07
I have not done any welding with a suitcase in 15 years.  Here is the setup, Miller suitcase on a Miller trailblazer trying out .30 Hobart gasless wire.  Using this mainly on handrail work (14 gauge steel), running about 60 amps DCEP.  The LWS rep made a point to tell me absolutely you must run this DCEP.  Well it will lay a good bead but it throws buckshot like mad.  Assuming this wire is truly made to run DCEP, I have noticed  other similar wires that run DCEN, any tips on reducing the spatter?
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 02-09-2011 20:24
Man that is miniscule wire!  I didn't know they could even manufacture flux cored wire that small.

Voltage too high or too low?

What is the AWS electrode classification?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-09-2011 21:08
Tommy

I've never heard of DCEP with self-shielded FCAW

Here is the link to Hobarts Website

http://www.hobartbrothers.com/products/

They have data sheets for everything.

The small dia. Hobart Gasless wire I've used has been outstanding. (when used on small jobs)

Lemme know what you find out.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 02-09-2011 22:24
Hobart Fabshield 21B in .035. on DCEN. I use this if Lincoln Nr211 is not available or a code issue.
Lincoln NR211 is the ultimate Innershield if Charpys are not required. My take is that anything that comes in less than .035" is "hobbyists" wire and not suitable for professional use. Beware of LWS salesmen as they are self proclaimed welding experts and often have little to no real experience. I have friends that are LWS's and have spent gadzillions of $$ in their stores. But Like quoting a code, I think they should have the book open when they are talking specs.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-09-2011 23:00
Sorry .035

This is mainly for 14 gauge work so .045 would be a little big.  According to Hobart some of their wires are DCEP (fabsheild4 )some are DCEN and at least one has no polarity callout on the website anyway.   I do not know which one we have, (I did not order it)...but I will find out tommorow.   Far as the LWS reps go...I have quickly learned to have a saltshaker handy when they start talking
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 02-10-2011 02:04
Lawrence - I have never seen any either, but according to our text book (Welding Principles and Practices 3rd ed. table 23-2) E70T-3, E70T-4, and E70T-6 are gassless and run on DCEP.  Of course the -Gs are anyone's guess.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-12-2011 02:15
Just to let yall know it was FABSHEILD 23  which is of course DCEN.   I will say it froze and built up quick on DCEP but the buckshot was a serious detriment.  Run it this morning on the correct polarity and it seems fine for our application.  STUPID SALESMEN...stupid me for listening to him to begin with.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 02-12-2011 05:51
Good to hear you got that sorted out. Best of luck on your light gauge project... LWS gurus = welder beware!
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-13-2011 01:19
Blaster I am a complete amateur with flux core...I have run miles of it but only fillets in position.  This fabsheild 23 runs great uphill...fantastic in fact...I did not expect much from a gasless wire but uphand it is great.  I always scoffed at the gasless wire (except certain structural work)...but it really does have its place and uses.  It was really nice not running a long gas line or toting a bottle round.

Superflux it is typical handrail repair job on a large apartment complex....housing authority forced kind of work....apparently we are like number 42 to go cut out and refit this particular place.  Today went well and fast, we will make money on it for sure.  It sure was nice to see the sun today!!!  Thanks for the well wishes, I reckon it was working for us today.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 02-13-2011 04:09
Number 42??!!! Glad to hear it finally all came together
No pressure, No pressure, No pressure. Sounds like the planets were aligned in your favor. Uphill and correct polarity...COOL! FCAW's just like GMAW, only slag to chip.
I talk brave now, but I am facing my first welding test in nearly 15 years come Monday! Had to hire an Archaeologist to find my welding hood.
Got 8 3G and 4G plates (SMAW & FCAW 7018 and 309) to do next week.
It aint right!
I'm supposed to be an Office PUKE,  danged it!!!!!!
No pressure, No pressure, No pressure....I keep telling MY self!!!!
It's only a job, It's only a job, It's only a job..........
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-13-2011 04:54
Hey John, don't worry man!  NO PRESSURE....... NO PRESSURE........ NO PRESSURE! Hopefully, no BUTTERFLIES! Seriously, you'll be just fine, but I do know the part about taking a cert. test after an extended period of time. Many jobs that I have held before and during my teaching tenure hadn't required me to be certed, 2 yrs. ago that changed and I found myself asking that dreaded question: Can I pass?.... I did and likely you will. Good luck and best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 02-13-2011 05:36
Allan,
Thanks for the vote of confidence.

After all I AM SUPERFLUX! The ultimate GOLDEN ARM. Mere mortal Welders fall prostrate at my feet like the slag that crumbleth forth freely from my immaculate beads....
Not that I've ever been one to squat like a puppy in the test booth. But! Ya just never know........Seen the evil eye (RT) and the One armed Johnny (bend jig) surprise everyone. 
This is one of those jobs that pays so good, you have to have 2 wallets. One for the uncashed paychecks and the other for all them hundred dollar bills!
I just have to pass this test and get hired so I can pay the Archaeologist! LOL
Eight plate tests is a Marathon.

NO PRESSURE....... NO PRESSURE........ NO PRESSURE!
John
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-13-2011 06:43
So John, I do have a question, why so many plates? Are they all different in some manner or position, restriction, etc.?, you've got my curiousity peaked. If you are allowed, a bit of explanation could possibly quell my curiosity. Thanks, Allan
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-13-2011 20:12
"The ultimate GOLDEN ARM. Mere mortal Welders fall prostrate at my feet like the slag that crumbleth forth freely from my immaculate beads...."

Bwhaahahaha    ROFLMAO!!   crumbeleth forth freely

No biggie....just do not think about the dump trucks of cash and there will be no pressure!  Lot of plates...you might want to do some 12 ounce curls or something to build up stamina in that Golden Arm.  I will wish you all the luck with it...I just do not think you will need it.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 02-14-2011 02:21
Wish I could do a couple of 12oz curls, but the testing facility bans beer, crack, hookers....
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-15-2011 00:52
Yea that sux....I usually think I am welding like a Low Hydrogen god  at home with a beer in my off hand...its probably just the beer. 

How bout this welding test    12 Gauge butt, 1/16 gap, .045 wire, no backing strip, 3G, innershield with 75/25 on a wore out ESAB mig.,,,,BTW I was not allowed to change any settings (that is my excuse and I am sticking to it).   That is why I say I am an amateur on flux core....I took that test about 13 years ago and totally cobbed it up.   I personally think it was pushing it pretty hard with .045 wire...but regardless I failed it miserably.   Had to pass that test FIRST and I was applying for a TIG job...WTF.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-15-2011 01:01
Hello Tommy, are you sure about the 75/25 shielding gas with the "innershield" wire? That is certainly a recipe for disaster if they required you to test with those components. Please tell me that is a typo on your part, if not, then they really gave you the shaft. I certainly wouldn't want to try to make that work, especially if they preset your machine. Straight polarity too? Sorry Tommy, I'm trying to get a handle on what you have described and it isn't adding up for me. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-15-2011 03:34 Edited 02-15-2011 03:38
Allan I assume it was an argon/co2 mix....actually I do not know...was it innersheild ok maybe not....see I told you I am not up to snuff I flux core anything.....it was a FCAW with gas that is for certain....all the other parameters were just as I described.  All I know is that seemed like fat wire (too hot) for the metal being joined, 3g uphill......maybe I could do it today but I really doubt it.  I had never run FCAW uphill before that test and it blew me out of the water.  Despite "Innershield" ...what gases are appropriate with FCAW in general on steel...I would think a typical 80/20 mix is ok...no?

Allan I was just relaying a bout with a test a long time ago since the OP was about FCAW and tests got brought up...that's all bud.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-15-2011 04:19
Hello again Tommy, it's been a long day, I should have paid better attention to "all" of the posts leading up to the one of yours that I responded to. Gas-shielded flux-cored wires have been evolving immensely over the last X number of years. When I started out with gas-shielded, flux-cored welding, we were running straight CO2 with a flat/horizontal only wire designation, they didn't even have an all-position wire and didn't have an option for any other shielding gas as well.
      Now, you might see straight CO2, 75/25(75%Ar, 25%CO2), and in some cases 90/10(90%AR, 10%CO2), and additionally, many of these wires might allow for running 75 to 90%Ar mixes with the balance of CO2 for the mix. The ASME and AWS designations, as well as others, possibly ABS, or CWB on the packaging, will spell out what shielding gases are required/allowed.
     In some cases, there are additional designations(on the packaging) to include meeting Charpy testing values for instances where seismic applications are required. Everything is definitely getting a bit more complicated and figuring it all out generally takes some doing. Keep on reading and researching here on the forum, as well as other places, you'll get the hang of it and hang with the best of them. Best regards, Allan
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Gasless FCAW Polarity issues?

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill