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Up Topic Welding Industry / Metallurgy / A-TIG
- - By hobart (*) Date 12-06-2010 19:33
hi dear friends
have anyone attractive data about active flux tig? what is the difference between saw flux and a-tig flux?
tnx alot
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 02-01-2011 20:22
hobart,

I guess, it will become self-explanatory what the differences between SAW fluxes (you may certainly find the properties for these on the web and in appropriate handbooks) and A-TIG fluxes are, as soon as you’ll know what the latter are made of.

A-TIG (Activated Flux TIG) was invented by the Russians. And although I seem to recall that also the US EWI has recently stepped into and offers this technology segment, even nowadays it is they who are leading the scientific field of investigation. However, A-TIG is a permanent subject of research and two major fractions of scientists argue on the physical mechanisms, governing the process. Those ones who want to see established “Marangoni” as the major driving force and even those ones who disagree to that.

The International Institute of Welding (IIW) may provide you with a bunch of publications, see also http://www.iiwelding.org/Search/Pages/Results.aspx?k=A-TIG.

The Annual IIW Assembly 2004 held in Osaka has even focused particularly on A-TIG within its working group meetings (Comm. XII / SG 212) and one might honestly state:

“Yes, the process itself and its results are fascinating!”

So the question arises: “Why isn’t it used more often in the field?”

Well, actually A-TIG fluxes are, even nowadays, somewhat afflicted with ‘Black Magic’. That is, nobody, except the “magician” himself who did mix the flux, is most likely able to admit what exactly the flux composition is.

According to [1] and hence definitely different to SAW fluxes, they are consisting of a high number of metal oxides, such as:

•  Al2O3 (Aluminium-Oxide)
•  MgO (Magnesium-Oxide)
•  CaO (Calcium-Oxide)
•  SrO (Strontium-Oxide)
•  Cr2O3 (Chromium-Oxide)
•  MnO (Manganese-Oxide)
•  CoO (Cobalt-Oxide)
•  Fe2O3 (Iron-Oxide)
•  Ga2O3 (Gallium-Oxide)
•  In2O3 (Indium-Oxide)
•  GeO2 (Germanium-Oxide)
•  SnO2 (Tin-Oxide)
•  V2O5 (Vanadium-Oxide)
•  MoO3 (Molybdenum-Oxide)
•  TiO2 (Titanium-Oxide) and
•  (SiO2 (Silicon-Oxide)

These constituents are believed to be “activators” for significantly increasing weld fusion depth in stainless steel GTAW.

Professor Konstantin Yushchenko of the famous Ukrainian Paton Welding Institute is one of the globally leading experts in this field and I should like to recommend to you to read his paper [1], see also: http://www.iiwelding.org/Publications/TechnicalDB/Old%20TechnicalDatabase/PopUp.aspx?ID=4458 presented at the IIW Annual Assembly in Quebec in 2006.

To come to an end. The process, even though proving excellently fusion depth increase, is somewhat 'incalculable' in its conduction. That is, the “activating flux” has to be deposited upon the workpiece surface as a kind of compound layer prior to welding. The result however, is believed to vary as a function of the layer thickness. That is, one has to accurately control the layer thickness by utilising appropriate means (eddy current converter, see also [1]). So you may imagine to be confronted with an increasing number of variables. The flux composition itself and the procedure to use it accordingly for obtaining highly reproducible results. That, at least in my humble opinion, may be assessed the main obstacles impeding a more widespread use of A-TIG in the industry.

Best to you,
Stephan

References:
[1] Paton, B.E. et al. (2006), “Factors of Increased Penetrating Capacity of A-TIG Welding of Stainless Steel”, IIW Doc. No. XII-1911-06
Parent - By hobart (*) Date 03-12-2011 16:28
thanks alot for your help
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 02-02-2011 00:30
Here are some articles with actual application data comparing GTAW with and without flux in a .pdf for your review, and I do remember about a post I made on active flux TIG a few years ago here that also had some good comparison data also... So, first I'll post the links I have regarding active flux TIG, and then attempt to answer your other question regarding the differences between the flux used in submerged arc welding & active flux gas tungsten arc welding...

http://www.arcmachines.com/pdf/DuplexPaper01.pdf

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20070181550.pdf

http://www.mtakpa.hu/kpa/download/1155699.pdf

http://www.mtakpa.hu/kpa/download/1285218.pdf

http://www.gxcme.edu.cn/jpkc1/hj060522/weld12.6/lesson/lesson6/6_1_6.pdf

http://www.igcar.ernet.in/igc2004/htdocs/technology/ATIG_2009.pdf

http://www.igcar.ernet.in/benchmark/Tech/7-tech.pdf

http://www.iiwindia.com/pdf/Advances_in_Arc_Welding_Tech_Aust_SS_Steel.pdf

There's more, but I think this is enough for you to digest for a while...

Now, regarding your query about the differences between SAW flux and A-TIG flux, they are used in two very different arc welding processes and the sizes of the flux particles are very different as well as the compositions of the two very different types of fluxes. Apples and oranges here when comparing the two. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 02-04-2011 11:47
I see you still use Google instead of a real education.

6.6
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-14-2011 00:53
I wish I was as smart as you.
You can maybe find a real education.
And more important real knowledge.
Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 03-14-2011 08:22
Bu ke qi.
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-16-2011 03:35
1972????
I was learning pipe welding then.
BTW SS pipe.
Yes TIG 6G.
Thank you for time and consideration.

Sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 03-16-2011 12:34
Thats ****ing AWESOME duuuude.

:eek:
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-16-2011 12:49
3.2,
:confused:
Take just a minute and look back at your posts in this thread and then ask yourself if they were really necessary, or if they were any help to the OP.
Parent - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 03-17-2011 02:36
You are right..... :red:
Up Topic Welding Industry / Metallurgy / A-TIG

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