D1.3 PreQualified

Date 03-29-2011 20:45 Edited 03-29-2011 20:55

I am usually a D1.1 user but have had to do some PQR's for D1.3 Lately and something doesnt make sense.
The code has pre-qualified base metals right? And it is pre-qualified to weld to D1.1 structural base metals up to 3/16" right?
So if this is all true then from my understanding I could take two sheets of prequalified weld metal and perform a prequalified fillet weld PQR sheet to sheet.
Because I did the WPS qualification sheet to sheet I am now able to apply that PQR on a sheet to D1.1 structural member > 3/16" weld. But it was already a pre-qualified (or proven) joint/base metal configuration that we knew would work.
This does not make any sense to my brain that welding a "pre-qualified" joint and base metal combination then qualifies for more.
Am I missing something or is this just one of those areas that the code does not make sense?

By 803056

Date 03-29-2011 22:34

D1.1 to D1.1 and D1.3 to D1.3, never the twain shall meet.

Al

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-30-2011 00:20

Tommy,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

Now, I hate to try and add anything to Al's comments. He is far more experienced and knowledgable in these things than I.

But, let me see if I understand the question...

You are wondering if you can take a procedure that is 'Pre-qualified' in D1.3 or Qualified to the simple tests OF D1.3 and then call them 'Pre-qualified per D1.1???

If you are wondering about the overlapping of materials dimensions between the max size in D1.3 and the min size in D1.1, that does not allow one to take a procedure from one code and apply it to another code. Each must be used and is applicable only within it's own scope and application.

As Al points out...D1.1 to D1.1 & D1.3 to D1.3. You can't try to work them together to get a Pre-qualified WPS when you actually need the PQR and testing requirements of Clause 4 in D1.1.

I hope I made sense.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By MiddleTommy (*)

Date 03-30-2011 20:37 Edited 03-30-2011 21:34

Thanks guys after reading my post I am a little confusing.
I am not talking about mixing codes I am talking about mixing base metals where D1.3 2008 references D1.1 in sections 1.1 and 1.2.1
My question could be simplified.

Where welding sheet to sheet qualifies for welding sheet to structural member of any thickness;
Why is welding sheet to structural member > 3/16" not pre-qualified where welding sheet to sheet or sheet to structural member <= 3/16"(7GA) is pre-qualified?

By mraschis (*)

Date 04-08-2011 01:15

to answer question 1. . See Table 1.1 on D1.3:2008. It's not true that sheet to sheet qualifies for welding sheet (t1) to structural member (t2) OF ANY THICKNESS. When t2 > 3/16" you must use D1.1 and in conformance with Annex A of D.1.3 (prequalification of wps N/A) but fillet, Flare-grooves, Arc spots, Arc seams and Arc plugs can be qualified by test.

to answer question 2.. again sheet (t1) to structural member (t2) where t2 >3/16" falls into D1.1, so, it's not pre-qualified as per D1.3. See table 1.1 and Annex A on D1.3

By MiddleTommy (*)

Date 04-08-2011 14:41 Edited 04-08-2011 17:10

According to Table 1.1 if I weld a 12Ga sheet to a 5/8 structural member I would refer only to Annex A.
Annex A points me back to table 4.1 that says sheet to sheet qualifies a sheet to structural.
D1.1 is only used in Annex A of D1.3 for the properties of the 5/8 material like preheat, under cut ...
(side note: I found a type-o; D1.3 Table 4.1 has an error where Essential Variables for D1.1 is concerned. It should reference D1.1 Table 4.5 not Table 4.2)
I would then argue that we are back where we started. (without going into too much detail and typing) Why is this not prequalified for known sheet metals like ASTM A 1008?

Where the sheet is > 1/8" I would just use D1.1 unless it is not pre-qualified per D1.1 then I would use D1.3 Annex A (as D1.3 Table 4.1 states to use D1.1 "or" Annex A) Putting us back where we started.

The code should have this prequalified or the code should abandon that sheet to sheet qualifies sheet to structural.
The only catch I can see is where one could argue the Essential Varriables limit thickness(D1.3 Table 4.2 (10)). I read this as only applying to the sheet. D1.1 Table 4.5 refers to the structural member except item (27) that refers to thickness qualified.

I try to only ask questions after I have thought long and hard and read and re-read the code.

Does anyone know how to submit an official question to AWS?
I tried to months ago about bend test width tolerance and never got a response.