A while back a so called friend asked me to build some cattle guards for a new roustabout company he and another guy had just started. I told him for a 16' cattleguard with rigid upright ends would be in the neighborhood of $1200-$1500 just for the labor. He was to supply all material. He delivered the pipe and I went and picked up the gates. Just as I was getting started he calls and says the oil company wants the upright ends removable. I told him clearly that would be quite a bit more work. No problem just build them. I got the first one done and delivered and told him that I had alot more time in this style as opposed to the rigid end style. I explained that I had $2470 just in labor but since he wanted four more I would drop the price down to 2k a piece. Then he tells me that I have to wait to get paid until he gets paid. I said no problem. A few days later he calls and says he dont want anymore built he has found a place to get them cheaper. Ok, more power to ya. He then asked if I would build them in this new style for 1200. I told him no because that would be less than half my hourly rate of $65. I explained how the first one was a prototype and the next ones would go quicker so thats why I cut him a price break on the first one, but if he is only taking one then its full price. Then the stuff hit the fan. We hung up and I didnt hear from him for 2wks. He called today wondering if he could come get his material and I said sure if you have my check. Still not paid by the oil company. I said he could get his pipe and gates from my yard when I get paid. He is wanting to get someone else started on building them. He says he cant understand why it costs me so much to build them when he could do it in the dirt at his ranch so much cheaper. I told him when he gets my $$$ or brings back the cattlegaurd with my labor on it he can get his stuff. Am I wrong? What do some of you who habe been in this situation advise? Please excuse the grammar and spelling. Im a little hot.
I would hang on to that pipe 'till the check has been cashed, cleared and there is no way for that money to get removed from Your account.
I don't know what Your legal rights & responsibilities are, but the old saying is "posession is 9/10s of the law.
If You give back the pipe without being paid You stand to loose Your money and Your "friend", never see either again.
Once bit, twice shy.
What Dave said. Why let him gig you twice?
That is why you put it in writing!!! BUt you got his pipe, do not release it until you have a check clear your bank. I really do not know any one that does handshake deals anymore unless you have a long history with them including me.
A real friend wouldn't do you that way.
See My post lower on the page. Sometimes it takes a little while even for friends to see the light. A real friend eventually does.
X2 with Dave's advice. I held onto several thousand dollars of ridgid conduit, wire and tools over $450.00 owed to me. Took the jackwagon almost two years to pay me... I should have charged him storage! When he came to pick the stuff up the first time with a check I sent him packing. The next time, over a year later, he finally had the cash in hand.
Where is/was your signed contract...legal document?
It was just a gentlemans agreement between friends. Had it been anyone else I would have had it in writing. Lessons learned.
Sadly a Gentleman's Agreement is viewed by many as a sign of weakness. Rule #1 No legal paperwork, no work.
Due respect: family and friends will be the first to take advantage...avoid both to keep issues and relationships civil!
Tex,
This brings back nightmares from 10 years ago. Did the exact same thing. Started at $1400 for a 16 footer. After a few, the price was dropping. My partner (who owned the company) initially agreed to the drop in price because we were getting the delivery and installation. Soon every yayhoo with a Bobcat or 250 Ranger was jumping onto the cattle guard fab business. The last man I spoke to that hung in there was doing them for $500. Told me he was "locked in" and couldn't stop but was loosing his butt, barely making Burger King wages. Apologized for being a jerk low baller. Greedy pukes will low ball themselves into the poor house.
Hang on to the material. As was said earlier, don't give up the goods until the check is cashed! If he threatens with legal action, then counter. Usually it's a bluff
Good luck to ya.
these days a 16 footer is 2500 3200 installed with concrete edges i wouldnt turn the knob on the front door for 500 a gaurd not even 10 years ago
I'd hang onto the material even if it was my own mother you have time invested in it once the material is gone so is your money and your friend if he screwed you over like that id say he's not a friend at all
I agree with Shad, no way I'm striking an arc on a cattle guard for that. I have gotten a few from Tractor Supply and made a few modifications to save time and paint cost. You know anyone will let you work for free, Stand your ground on this one. The boat yard in Rock Port Texas has a sign "NO CASH NO SPLASH"
As soon as I read "A while back a so called friend asked me...." I knew where this was headed.
Been burnt by so called friends three times in my career and learned a valuable lesson from my dearly departed Grandad. He often said that if a friend asks you for a loan, just give him the money with no expectations of getting it back. Same with building something for a friend, just give it to him for free or don't do it at all.
Of course the best policy is "neither a lender or borrower be"...
He keeps asking why it costs so much for me to do it when he can have his hired man build them in the dirt for 14/hr. I tried to explain that I have alot of money invested to insure that I can do a good job. Not to mention the 20 yrs that Ive been doing this. If my time, tools and experience arent worth a livable wage then I cant see any reason to do it. Even after I have encouraged him to go elsewhere and have someone else do it, he still tries to get me to do the work for half price. That didnt work and then he resorted to talking down to me and trying to tell me he was doing me a favor by letting me do his work at half price. I laughed out loud on that one. My lesson is learned and Ive had a chance to reevaluate our relationship. Thanks guys.
Stick to your guns. It chaps my arse when you spend time doing something and they say "I can build it in my driveway for 1/4 the price". I usually hope they tell me this right off so I can either hang up or drive away. Still stickin to my friends saying, "I can sit at home and go broke, I don't have to work at it"
Tex you do not have to EXPLAIN yourself to anyone.....you gave a price and it is what it is.....if it gives the guy heartache then he can go down the road and get what he can. I Hear that crap all the time, my answer is simple, if you can get what I do cheaper then that is what you SHOULD do! I see at least 60% of those folks again, there is no haggling the 2nd time either.
A man I highly admire told me once "you can sell a quality made product at almost whatever price you wish, but you cannot GIVE away a piece of crap no matter how hard you try". That has really stuck with me because it is nothing but truth.
Hold the material and make him pay you. He initiated it, it is his responsibility.
A good friend told me that it was just as easy to say $500 as it is to say $50.
The customer that pays the $500 will appreciate the work more than the client that got it on the cheap for $50.
Best regards - Al
Back in the early '80s a friend who I grew up with and is still one of My best friends was busting My but because He found a guy that welded for $10/hour, and at the time I would have charged Him $15.
The guy welded some simple "U" saped parts from 2x2x1/4 angle iron, they were 4' on the legs and 8' on the bottom. These were supposed to fit around a sheet of 4x8 plywood.
I happened to be at His place when He tried to put the plywood in the frames [this was to make a box on top of His dump truck for the chipper to blow chips into].
The weld pulled the legs together so bad that it was about 8" too narrow to go around the sheet of plywood at the open end of the "U".
He finally did get it together by jacking the legs apart, which put an obvioud bow in the bottom member.
I said "You got what You paid for".
I have done a lot of work for Him since, and He has had some others weld for Him from time to time also. I might not be the cheapest guy He can find, and certainly not the most expensive, but He knows that what I do will be as good as He is willing to pay for or better.
All you have to do is call the Oil Company he is working for, You will get a check and Possibly more work. He will get in a Bind and possibly loose his work. That simple. Oil Companies Do Not Play with their leases
I would do it myself you understand, but,,, I don't have the tools or know how,,, other than that I would do it myself.
The SECOND he started talking down to me and trying to belittle me and my knowlage/experience. it would have been CASH Only if he wants to get his pipe back.
I got paid finally. He put a check in my mailbox and I went and cashed it that day. He sent a couple of school kids out the next day to get his material. They ended up leaving half of it and I dont know when they are coming back to get it.
Probably when they get their money,LOL
Sounds like the material is yours now.
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