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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Plate qualification being used on pipe, minimum diameter ?
- - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-18-2011 23:05
This has me stumped.

As I recall below a certain dimension plate PQR's or welder qualifications can not be used for pipe.    We have a proposed repair procedure where the pipe would be welded several inches at a time and indexed as a work around instead of a standalone procedure.  This seems like a sneaky way to get around not wanting to jump through the hoops of qualifying a 1G-R procedure and welder.

As precedence can anyone point me to where it states the minimum diameter for plate qualifications applying to pipe? Preferably in D1.1 or ASME IX or API 1101.  THis weld doesn't fall under any of these code (the governing code doesn't mention it) I just need precedence.  ASME section IX seemed to okay plate for pipe qualifications as far as I could read. Couldn't find the statement in D1.1 for tubular connections.  I don't have a copy of API but I recall it pointing out a diameter.
Parent - By waccobird (****) Date 07-19-2011 00:17
Metarinka

I think you mean
CJP or PJP Groove weld Qualification on Plate
Only Qualified for pipe over 24 in. diameter with backing, back-gouging, or both.

Good Luck
Marshall
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 07-19-2011 01:51 Edited 07-19-2011 01:59
D1.1 (2010) table 4.1 note "b" and table 4.10 note "c".
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 07-21-2011 18:41

>"As I recall below a certain dimension plate PQR's or welder qualifications can not be used for pipe"<


Assuming you already have a test qualified WPS;
ASME Sec IX QW-461.9 Performance Qualification Limitations (within the other limitations of QW-303) Table shows that a 1G plate groove weld qualification allows you to groove weld plate & pipe over 24" o.d. in flat position and/or groove weld plate & pipe less than or equal to 24" o.d. in flat position (note 2: pipe 2-7/8" o.d. and over) and/or fillet weld plate & pipe in the flat position.

>"THis weld doesn't fall under any of these code (the governing code doesn't mention it) I just need precedence"<


1.  What type of weld is it?
2.  What governing code is it?
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-21-2011 19:48 Edited 07-21-2011 19:59
It's probably NAVSEA/NAVSHIPS nuclear code of whatever number since it is part of Metrinka's (Joel's) work as far as the governing code is concerned...

How's the B$**is Lab doing these days Joel? It would be nice to know which is the governing code #'s dude!

It's definitely USN Nuke work if it's @ the B$**is lab:roll::eek::lol::wink::cool:

It's probably a groove weld with either backing strip or an open groove with ceramic backing... What is the process being used for the repair Joel?:cool:

Finally, have you relocated to Western PA yet?:eek::lol::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 07-21-2011 20:04
NAVSEA S9074-AQ-GIB-010/248 is qualification standards but I don't know if Joel will tell us.  He IS a qualified scrap producer you know.

Respectfully,
QCRobert
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-22-2011 03:09
You mean one of the qualification standards... Now, have you been to the B@**is lab? I know it well...
They design Navy Nuke reactors and other components for both surface (carriers) as well as Submarines.
Btw, we're all qualified scrap producers:roll::razz::eek::wink::cool:
Ever rode or served in a Submarine? I have.:wink: Ever help build any?? I have:wink:

Now if Joel will inform us of the governing code, then we could narrow it down some:roll::roll::roll::eek::eek::eek::wink:

I told you to watch what you post in here Joel!!!:lol::smile::wink: Loose lips sink ships!!!:wink::yell::cool:
All of a sudden everybody's using "Respectfully" in here...
Hmmmm, very interesting to say the least.:wink::cool:
I guess I started a trend in here - many moons ago I might add.:lol::smile::wink:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By qcrobert (***) Date 07-22-2011 12:11

>You mean one of the qualification standards...<  Correct
>Now, have you been to the B@**is lab?<   No Sir
>Btw, we're all qualified scrap producers <  Yes Sir, it was in Joel's profile
>Ever rode or served in a Submarine?<    No Sir
>Ever help build any??<   No Sir
>All of a sudden everybody's using "Respectfully" in here...<   Haven't noticed
>I guess I started a trend in here - many moons ago I might add.<  Possibly


You're the Captain here, Henry...

Respectfully,
QCRobert
Attachment: sasebojapan002.jpg (0B)
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-23-2011 20:41
sorry for the long delay, my son was born yesterday.  6 pounds 10 0z, he and mother are doing well.

Now back to the question of concern. This weld does not fall under the any of the Navsea or mil-spec codes.  We operate to an independent code developed in house. It's classified so you'll never see a copy or the name.   I just wanted some precedence on using plate qualifications for pipe welds. It's funny once you stop reading a code like D1.1 or working in a certain field how fast you'll lose the information (or maybe that's just me). Won't say anything else about the weld, just couldn't remember if this would of been a kosher repair in D1.1 or ASME IX. Just to get a relevant stance, since our code is applied to only one product, it's not as all encompassing as the commercial codes and requires a lot more engineering effort.

I'm still a certified scrap producer, it's just now when we scrap a part it costs the dear tax payers lots of money.

I'm now living in the pittsburgh area around west mifflin if you know where that is.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-23-2011 20:55
Happy Day!

Blessings Joel

Lar
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-24-2011 04:04
So you just about walk to work - eh?:smile:
Or do you ride a bike to work?:lol:

Btw, Congratulations to you having a son and regards to your wife.:cool: I do know exactly where it is.:lol::wink::cool:

Well, now that you gave us more info to  look at, I could see where you would be in a conundrum of sorts regarding your query.

I still don't see the logic in getting to 8 figures for a full qualification as opposed to hybridizing and adding on some already existing "quals" to formulate a new "Soup" & save a heap of dough instead, but then again the Navy sets the rules and you folks must follow the yellow brick road so to speak.:eek::roll::razz::wink::lol::cool:

"Anywho," all the best to you and when you get some time, check out the Pittsburgh section of the AWS unless you already have.:lol::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-24-2011 15:54
I walk to work in the winter and ride my bicycle in the summer. I could ride my motorcycle, but it's slower than the bicycle.

As I mentioned our code is setup much different than a commercial code, the navy doesn't even have direct control over it.  We do a lot more hours of engineering evaluation prior to approval as compared to commercial codes where you don't necessarily need an engineers involvement (keeps me employed).  Qualifications run very expensive and repairs are not desired, we tend to get things done right the first time around.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-24-2011 19:44
Of course they don't have direct control and that's why they contracted Bechtel-Bettis but if they don't like something you're doing, they'll most definitely let you know about it, and order the necessary changes or go through DOD and make their case which will be either accepted or denied Joel... After all, they are the customer.:wink:

Don't ever think for once that you guys have the final say because you don't...

Now, have they given you the opportunity to hitch a ride on real live carrier or a submarine in order to check out a working reactor yet?
I've been around quite a few.:eek::wink::cool: If not, then you need to start prodding them for a chance.:wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By scrappywelds (***) Date 07-26-2011 00:02
My brother served on the Pittsburg. during the first bombing in Iraq.
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-23-2011 20:46
the navsea nuclear code I believe is applied to the process piping on the hot side, and steam side.  I don't work in those groups so I don't deal with those codes.

everything we do at the lab isn't a heavily guarded secret, for instance we design all the shipping containers for spent nuclear fuel. we also did a lot of the design work for Yucca mountain before it was shuttered.  All that is public knowledge information. 

And yes we have design and engineering responsibility for all nuclear reactors on submarines and aircraft carriers.  totally different world...
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-23-2011 21:00
Seems like alot of running around Joel.

Why not just qualify the Procedures and Personel for the pipe...?    

You certainly have the money.

For the value of your time doing research you could have gone a long way to affording to run the PQR's and performance quals and had them in your pocket.
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-23-2011 21:08
that was my vote, however doing a full qualification would be in the 8 figure range... no joke. Can't get into detail, but our qualifications are much more stringent than anything you've seen in commercial industry even commercial nuclear. There's a reason the power plant for a new aircraft carrier costs billions of dollars.... 

We came to a conclusion I'm not happy with, but it's outside my hands, as long as it in no way endangers the power-plant or the sailors however I'll be fine with it. I was just consulted for a second opinion, this is not even under my cognizance, I do research and feasibility studies now.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-23-2011 21:10
Well it's interesting that we think a little alike  :)

8 figures!   Yikes.

Bravo then to you for good stewardship!
Parent - By jerrykroll (**) Date 07-27-2011 00:55
An inquiry I made several years ago, and the response from AWS.

Subject:Welder Qualification - Pipe Diameters Qualified

Code Edition:D1.1 :2002

Code Provision:Table 4.9 and Table 4.10

AWSLog:01.1-02-106 (INQ-29)

Inquiry:
For a welder who is qualified by a plate groove test, what diameters of pipe is that welder
qualified to weld fillet welds and P1P welds?

Response:
A welder qualified by a plate groove test is also qualified to weld fillet welds on all diameters of
pipe and P1P welds over 24" diameter within the position and thickness limitations of Table 4.9
and 4.10.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Plate qualification being used on pipe, minimum diameter ?

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