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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / ABS class approval require new PQR?
- - By Boon (**) Date 07-28-2011 16:12
We have qualified WPSs and PQRs but when working on products to be installed onboard ABS classed vessels, must we re-do all WPSs and PQRs with witnessing by ABS surveyor?

We were told this is a requirement for ABS classed products. Why is this so?
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 07-28-2011 18:55
Just working off memory here, with no ABS books to reference.
I seem to remember that ABS gives their Surveyors a lot of lee-way in deciding whether or not to approve existing procedures, after being screwed over so many times by BS shipyard managers who can pencil whip documents as fast as you can ask for them.
A good Surveyor can tell BS from real world pretty easily. If you submit an accurate, pre-existing, actual PQR, that is within known industry standards, along with a revised WPS that is correctly written within ABS guidelines, it will probably be accepted. If they smell a rat, or if the Surveyor is tired of being stepped on, or if they've changed this approval process within the last 10 years, then yes, you'll have to qualify new witnessed PQR's. A lot of it depends on the size of the contract and the complexity of the welding process.
If you're bidding the job, you should go ahead and add this cost in.

Tim
Parent - - By Boon (**) Date 07-29-2011 04:51
Thanks for reply.
Our welding procedures are acc. to ASME IX.
Probably have to discuss with yard on this requirements / costs.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-29-2011 05:37 Edited 07-29-2011 05:39
This may help you grasp the code a little bit better with respect towards your query...

"Page 242.
1.3 Welding Approval (2010)

Before undertaking the welding of any structure subject to the requirements of these Rules, a manufacturer
is to prove to the satisfaction of the Surveyor that the welding consumables and the process the manufacturer
proposes to use have been approved and that welders and welding operators are duly qualified for the work
intended. See 2-4-3/3 and 2-4-2/5.

Page 244.
5 Workmanship and Supervision

5.1 Construction
Construction is to be carried out in accordance with approved plans and in compliance with Rule
requirements. Manufacturers, in all cases, are to be responsible for the quality of the work, and where
special supervision is required as stipulated in the applicable section of the Rules, the Surveyor is to satisfy
himself that procedure and workmanship, as well as the material used, are in accordance with the Rule
requirements and approved plans. Inspection of welds is to be carried out to the satisfaction of the
Surveyor in accordance with the acceptance criteria of 2-4-3/9.3.

Page 265.
5 Approval of Welding Procedures

5.1 Approved Filler Metals
The type of approved filler metals used on ABS-classed weldments will depend upon the specific
application for which the filler metal is intended. Procedure tests may be required at the discretion of the
attending Surveyor to determine the shipyard or fabricator’s capability in the application of the proposed
filler metal to the base material. The extent of such tests may vary depending upon the intended application,
but generally are to follow those tests outlined in 2-4-3/5.7.

5.3 Surveyor’s Acceptance
The Surveyor may, at his discretion, accept a filler metal, welding procedure, or both, in a shipyard or
fabricator’s plant where it is established to the Surveyor’s satisfaction that they have been effectively used
for similar work under similar conditions.

5.5 New Procedures and Methods
Weld tests using procedures and materials similar to those intended for production welding may be required
to be prepared by each shipyard or fabricator when new or unusual methods, base metals or filler metals are
proposed. All tests are to be made in the presence of the Surveyor and carried out to the Surveyor’s satisfaction.

Page 266.
7 Workmanship Tests

7.1 Hull Construction
The Surveyor may, when it is considered desirable, require welders to prepare specimens for Fillet-weld
Tests (Test No. 3) for the positions involved. Details of the specimen are shown in 2-4-3/Figure 8.

Page 268.
11 Welders

11.1 General Requirements
The Surveyor is to be satisfied that the welders are proficient in the type of work which they are called
upon to perform, either through requiring any or all of the tests outlined in the following paragraphs or
through due consideration of the system of employment, training, apprenticeship, plant testing, inspection,
etc., employed.

11.3 Qualification Tests (2010)
The tests, if required for qualification in the various positions for different materials and thicknesses, are
given in 2-4-3/Table 1. The tests are referred to by Nos. Q1 to Q4 inclusive for which specimens are to be
prepared in accordance with 2-4-3/Figure 9 to 2-4-3/Figure 12 respectively, and physically tested if the
welder is qualified by this method. Alternatively, upon the request of the employer, the welder may be
qualified by use of radiography, except for gas metal arc welding with the short circuit transfer technique
for which bend tests are required. Test assemblies for either physical testing or radiographic examination
are to be prepared according to material thickness and welding position, as indicated in 2-4-3/Table 1.
As an alternative, welders may be qualified in accordance with a recognized standard. The application of
such recognized standard is to be submitted for agreement by the Surveyor.

11.5 Tests Nos. Q1, Q2, Q3, and Q4
Specimens for qualification Tests Nos. Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4 are to be bent in a bending jig having the profile shown in 2-4-3/Figure 7.

Page 286.
3 Welding Procedures and Welders

3.1 Welding Procedures
Before proceeding with welding, the responsible fabricator is to prove to the satisfaction of the Surveyor
that the intended welding process, welding filler metal, preheat, post weld heat treatment, etc., as
applicable, have been qualified for joining the base metal. In general, the intended welding procedure is to
be supported by a welding procedure qualification record (PQR) conducted in the presence of the
Surveyor. Properly documented PQR, certified by a recognized body may be submitted to the Surveyor
for acceptance. The PQR is to be conducted in accordance with a recognized standard, such as the ASME
Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, Section IX. The PQR may be used to support those welding procedures
whose welding variables (e.g., base metal thickness, welding current, etc.) are within the ranges defined in
the recognized welding standard being used.

3.3 Welders and Welding Operators
Before proceeding with welding, the responsible fabricator is to prove to the satisfaction of the Surveyor
that the welder or the welding operator is qualified in performing the intended welding procedure. In
general, welders and welding operators are to be qualified in accordance with 2-4-3/11 in the presence of
the Surveyor. Properly documented welder performance qualification records (WPQ) conducted in
accordance with a recognized welding standard being used (such as the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel
Code, Section IX) and certified by a recognized body may be presented to the Surveyor for acceptance as
evidence of qualification. Once deemed qualified, the welder or the welding operator is permitted to
perform the welding as qualified, as well as other welding, provided the welding variables (e.g., position,
with or without backing, pipe size, etc.) of such welding are within specified ranges defined by the recognized welding standard being used."

As 99205 suggested, there is some light reading involved... I just narrowed it down a bit for you.:lol::roll::smile::eek::wink::cool:

Btw, Tim was just about on the money with his recollection of the code requirements.:eek::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By Boon (**) Date 07-29-2011 15:12
Thank you for the long post.
As I understand it, all would depends on "prove to the satisfaction of the surveyor" and if the "recognized body" accepted by ABS surveyor is only ABS themself, then the the "prove" is redundant.
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 07-28-2011 19:56
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / ABS class approval require new PQR?

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