Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D17.1
- - By welder8261 Date 07-29-2011 01:03 Edited 07-30-2011 17:37
r
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-29-2011 01:20 Edited 07-29-2011 13:41
Sounds like you think having a CWI involved makes qualifications somehow better. 

Not the case.

For an operation to do production in accordence with D17.1  a Huge investment is required.   Every procedure must be qualified by testing.  Numerous alloy groups must have individual qualifications. Nothing in D17 is prequalified,  Fillets and Grooves require seperate tests on thin material welder perfoamance quals.  The list goes on and on.

The biggest airlines, the Department of Defense and NASA qualify there welders/procedures to D17.. They have the most professional and experienced engineering, inspection and training departments there are.  They have no requirement to employ CWI's.

There is NO AWS welding code that requires a CWI for procedure or performance qualifications... None.

Compliance with D17 is no "wish wash"

What is your interest in D17  ?

Edit:   Glen , How can you be a CWI,  level III in multiple diciplines and an A&P mechanic and not be able to answer your own question?
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 07-29-2011 14:01
Tell him like it is Lawrence don't cut him know slack.

             M.G.
Parent - - By welder8261 Date 07-30-2011 17:47
Any of the lurkers on this Forum have the same BS temperment to act like they are above all and like to only gang up and harass other(especially CWI`s) so they can seem like the expert go to, while the others are just dummies in the crowd. I got to be an expert by keeping my mouth shut and listening instead of shooting my mouth off like your typical "Inspection Expert". I already knew I would just get a smart as answer from any of you with another question..hoping I will take your bait, to test how much dumber I can sound. I already spent Seven Years as a College Instructor to know it is easy to sit on my phone/PC and act like the big sh t,but it is a lot harder to go out there and do it for real so psss off.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-30-2011 18:32 Edited 07-30-2011 19:05
First of all Glenn,  I answered your question.

Second of all, your original post was more a criticisim/b*tch than it was a question in the first place..  Don't whine and you won't be treated like a whiner.

I don't think you sound "dumb" at all... In fact I'm really interested in your D1 publication... But It does come across like you have a chip on your shoulder regarding AWS codes. (sometimes this is pretty justified)  AWS committees sometimes give me heartburn to.

Thirdly...  I have been a member of the D17 committee and have been involved with it since before it's first publication.  As a journeyman aerospace welder for over 20 years, working directly on A7, F4, A6, A7 and FA/18 strike fighter aircraft, DC10, L1011, 727, 737, 757, 747, 777, commercial air craft, Titan Launch Vehicles and the Space Shuttle, as the curriculum builder and welding instructor for the largest airline in the world, I think I'm qualified to respond to your post.  Trust me.. "I've done it for real" Though I most certainly don't speak for the committee.  I don't generally trumpet my pedigree, I just answer the questions. In your case I make the exception.

So I know a thing or two about D17 compliance... Though I would not describe myself as an "Inspection Expert"  I have worked under experts, who have provided me with some pretty top shelf mentoring on the topic.

I also finished by asking "Why" you were asking specifically about D17... If you share some specifics of your problem rather than "pre-complaining" about the system, you might see a bit less dogpiling.

So in closing./.... If you have specifics you need to have addressed... Let's say we start over fresh.?
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 07-31-2011 02:33
Well Lawrence I have to respectfully disagree with your statement that a CWI somehow makes your qualifications better.I think it does.I believe it's a mark of achievement in the welding community.I've been on several contract NDT jobs back in the day,and no matter what we where there to do,be it RT,PT,MT,etc.,they would always ask " Is one of you a CWI".Even though it was not a requirement.As far as D17.1,you're right.It just says that a person performing visual weld inspection shall be qualified IAW QC1,or experience,and training.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-31-2011 04:58
I guess we will have to agree to disagree Ringo.

I will go as far as to say that a CWI will make your qualifications look better.  Meaning your professional resume/status

I would not say that a procedure qualification done by Pratt Whitney, Allison, GE, Rolls Royce, any branch of the DOD or any major airline has any greater value, merit or standing if one of the signatures on the PQR happens to be a CWI.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-29-2011 14:37
Not to pile on, but yet another CWI that does not know what a CWI's authority is.
And the phenomenal improvement of boiler safety over the years I think demonstrates an industry and governing body that does quite nicely without CWI's.
Not arguing against the CWI program. I actually are one. :razz: Or, er, were one.
But it does not automatically generate expertise or integrity.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-30-2011 19:30
What did I miss?

Al
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-30-2011 19:47
That's what you get Al, for going out and doing real work, instead of being a keyboard cowboy.

If I knew how to refresh what the OP originally said.. I would forward it.  But he deleted his original post so the rest of it looks rather disjointed.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-30-2011 20:00 Edited 07-30-2011 20:06
Removing a silly comment or stupid remark is the best thing to do in some cases. I've removed many of mine after rethinking what I've written. Then again, it can be useful to simply vent those frustrations.

By the way, do you know the definition of an expert? "An expert is someone that knows more and more about less and less until he knows everything about nothing."

I'll end my remarks with that lest I stir up any more mud.

Wait a minute, I do have a question; look, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but what is an AWS Level III Expert Welder? I really didn't know AWS had such a thing.

Al
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-30-2011 20:39 Edited 07-30-2011 20:55
Al,

Level III Expert Welder  Is a Qualification/Certification linked to the SENSE program.

In it's current form it is a VERY comprehensive combination of Levels 1 and 2, Plus extensive pipe, stainless and aluminum performance qualifications with the addition of a very comprehensive written exam over multi-process welding, safety, inspection, fabrication and print interpretation.

It's a Qualification if done at a non ATF, it may ve viewed as a Certification with national registration, if done at an AWS Accredited Test Facility.

It takes some dedication to earn one of these.

Level 1 was newly revised in a modular format last year.  Level 2 is on it's way to the presses with excellent revisions.. Level 3 will also be revised, but I think that one will take a bit more time to make modular.

Edits:  for clairity

SENSE Level 1     Entry Level Welder  EG2.0 Curriculum Guide   QC10 Specification for Qualification

SENSE Level 2    Advanced Welder     EG3.0 Curriculum Guide   QC11 Specification for Qualification

SENSE Level 3   Expert Level Welder   EG4.0 Curriculum Guide  QC12  Specification for Qualification

How do I know this?
I sit on the AWS Educators Subcommittee for SENSE, under the excellent leadership of Ed Norman; putting many hours into work on Level 1 and Level 2 revisions over the last few years.

For those who were (reasonably) dissatisfied with the Level 1 & 2 test questions and drawings;  I urge you to revisit the new revisions.  I think they are much better.  Plus the modular format was implemented especially to serve secondary schools who may not have all the equipment to do the full run of SENSE processes.  Also also;;;;;;  The WPS's provided for SENSE participating schools are revised and much better. Thanks to Rich Depue!
For further info
http://www.aws.org/w/a/education/sense/?id=vgSb44ZZ
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-30-2011 21:26
Thanks for the information.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 07-31-2011 01:20
Good info on that link.  I'll be attending the the International Training Institutes, Testing Supervisor course later this month and would like to institute that program, into our welder training, when I get back.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 08-01-2011 13:09
Apparently the deletion of the OP.
- - By jbndt (**) Date 07-31-2011 01:02
Scuse me but, I ben weldin a’fo most o’ youse kids was born …
N,  i r a hy skul drop out 2!

Now, if you pose an “assinine” question, be prepared to have your "minus i9” chewed a bit!

And, I’ve been able to call “BS” on more than a few college professors and engineers to boot!

Now, because this is NOT a phone or video forum, you cannot tell the inflection in the responders reply but, had you spent any amount of time on the forum, even as a “lurker”, you would know that the persons who take the time to reply here, have a sincere interest in knowledge and education that they are willing to share.
(How’s that for a run on sentence?)

Lawrence, use spell check!
Milton, I’ll cut you some slack … Know and no … “don’t cut him know slack.”
He should KNOW the code … Cute!

Expert Welder  =  Test Booth Prima Donna … Couldn’t run a bead in the field to save their  “–i9” …
They’re everywhere!

Rainy day, cold beer and, an informative forum … What a great afternoon!
(Yes, I do have a life… It just happens that welding and inspection is a large part of it!)

Cheers,
jb
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-31-2011 05:17 Edited 07-31-2011 05:21
Fascinating!:roll:

So many minds... So little time... Btw fella's, I do have my wader's on in case the tide rises too high!:lol::wink:

Glen, you need to enroll in Anger management class, and it doesn't impress me to know that you are at the level you show in your bio with that type of attitude!:roll::sad::smile:

One other observation if I may (Actually I don't give rat's arse if you don't want me to express it, but I thought for a microsecond to be polite by asking)...

You are an author of welding books, and yet you exhibit a very childish level of tolerance towards someone who did indeed answer your questions with your annotated response...

The deletion of your original post with the exception of the letter "r" in lower case for whatever reason exhibits to me that you got mad at the way we play in this sandbox...

So you took your toys out and went home pouting like a little child would... I say you need to grow up, or at least thicken that thin skin of yours.:eek::roll::yell::lol::wink::cool:

Which brings me to ask this question for clarification Glenn... Did you ever feel like you were a period in a ten thousand page book???:confused::roll::yell::lol::wink:

I will pray for you Glenn.:surprised::wink::cool:

Henry
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 07-31-2011 15:26
Henry

You seem to have so much fun here on the forum, that I think that something in it must be Illegal, Immoral and fattening!
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-31-2011 19:25
Hi Joe!

I think the last one makes the most sense since I do spend a good amount of time sitting on my butt reading the treads and typing in responses...

So multitasking is the norm for me which in fact, does include eating my meals also while online most of the time.:eek::grin::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 07-31-2011 15:28
Jimmy Buell,Thanks for explaining the use of the Know and No, but did you read the original post if not you don't understand what the crap was going on.
       M.G.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 08-01-2011 20:26
Easy Milt.

I thought Jimmy did a good job throwing that in as he did.  Of course, it may not make as much sense to those who can't view the OP.  But you should have caught it.

It is easy to get a little defensive when we are on the offense and defense at the same time with spammers.  Or at least one who needs to grow up and get more involved with the process before they get bent out of shape and say something they will regret down the line.

Great responses Lawrence.  You do indeed have quite an impressive background.  Keep up the good work.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
- By jbndt (**) Date 07-31-2011 18:21
MG,

“Milton, I’ll cut you some slack … Know and no … “don’t cut him know slack.”
He should KNOW the code … Cute!”

In other words, I thought it “brilliant” on your part, using the word “know”.  :lol:

Now, did I read the original post?
I sure did ... I even checked out his profile and the web-site given.

Other forums would call him a "TROLL".

Just felt like stirrin' a bit myself.  :twisted:

I’m just sorry that you took offence …  NONE was intended!

Cheers,
jb
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D17.1

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill