It depends on what your company is building and whether they have a contract that requires compliance with D17.1 or any other welding standard.
It isn't that time consuming and it isn't that expensive to test a welder. There is no defensible reason to put the lad to work without having him take the appropriate performance tests.
Considering the time you have spent with us on the Forum, I have to believe you knew the likely response before you posted the question.
Best regards -Al
it's common in some industries to do welding tests and go right into production before results come back. Due to schedule pressures. So yes in theory you can weld while he is unqualed and then "back certify" him to all the work you've done as long as you can prove that he followed approved WPS' properly.
only problem with this is if he fails the qualifcation on his first try, then it puts all his work into question. My answer would be let him keep going but certify as soon as you can.
I disagree with Joel somewhat. (this may be the first time) :)
If your welder is doing code production without proper qualification in your own house.. The welder, and those in authority over the welder are not in compliance. Period.
The engineering authority may elect to accept ouside quals. In some codes, this is clearly not the case in AWS D17.1.
Back dating or testing after production work is accomplished may not stand up to an audit.
I believe this is the case regardless if the welds are classed A, B, or C.
Milt, I also don't understand your quotation of 8.4... Could you please say more about that so I can understand where your comming from?
Edit:
This is what D17 Says:
"4.2.2 Qualification Requirements. To achieve qualified status, welders and welding
operators shall demonstrate their skill by producing acceptable test welds per the requirements of
Paragraph 4.3.8. Test welds should not be required for those welds that will not be required in
production welding. Qualifications, certifications, requalifications, and recertifications given
under this document do not transfer from one fabricator to another." (Emphasis mine)
This is what AWS D1.1 Says: (2004)
.
"4.1.2.1 Previous Performance Qualification.
Previous performance qualification tests of welders, welding
operators, and tack welders that are properly documented
are acceptable with the approval of the Engineer. The ac-
ceptability of performance qualification to other standards
is the Engineer's responsibility, to be excercised
based upon the specific structure, or the service conditions,
or both..."
So your question is a good one.. And AWS codes differ in how this topic is handled.
Yes, I agree with you Lawrence about D17.1 but I notice what you said about D1.1 could you tell me if that applies in D1.2 because that what he is welding to.I don't have the D1.2 code here at home but we have it at work and will look into it tomorrow.Thanks for your help,and to get my brain working. We have put orders in for the material for his qualification test but haven't heard nothing back I'm going to get my supervisor to check on it Monday.
M.G.
Sorry Milt,
I don't have a D1.2 handy......
As much as I love ya.. I'm not going into the office today to get one :)
D1.2, 2008 Clause 3, part D (Performance Qualification) doesn't contain the same language as D1.1. In a nutshell it says if he can show test records, show performance in that qualification in the last six months and show you he's competent in the qualification, he's good to go. The qualification is indefinite as long as he fulfills the 6 month requirement.
Thanks for everyone's help.
M.G.
It's okoay to disagree lawrence. I see your point, working in the nuclear industry we would never dream of letting a welder welder, before qualification.
I also agree that I would not accept outside qualifications. However I've seen several cases where a welder was qualified AFTER a weld was performed. Or more comomnly, work started before the results of certification were back. That is to say it wasn't uncommon to start work while test plates were bent and xrayed. A lot of this is upto the discretion of the engineer, or solutions to problems. I wouldn't recommend welding without qualification just for giggles, but it has been done as long as the paperwork is tight enough to prove the welder was following the WPS. I've also encountered this with WPS where it was found out the WPS was not followed properly or a mistake was caught, in these situations we would generate a new WPS that mimicked what was done. If it passed than I would have confidence in their welds.
I forgot to add, from a technical standpoint, we also gave our welders 1day to a week to get up to speed on our product and practice, qualifications would happen this time, and we would qualify them on their lead piece, if they had to do a bunch. If you can't get your welder qualified in more than a few days (not counting time to perform the DE) there's bigger issues.
I do understand Joel that "it" does happen out in industry. :)
There is also a place (sometimes) for testing production welds themselves for qualification..
But I don't see *any* way that a welder can do production on code work before performance qualification testing of some sort is complete.. The welder is not compliant period.
Engineering discretion extends to acceptance of outside paper in some codes.. I don't see the scope of that discretion going all the way to approving an unqualified welder to do code work.. It can be pencil whipped for sure. It's happend to me.
