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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / What would you do
- - By strat (**) Date 11-05-2011 20:48
Hey everyone,
Just wondering what you would do in this situation, you are the QC Manager/CWI for a AISC and ASME shop and you have been doing work for a nuclear plant thats going up, the shop sends a couple hundred plates ( asuming they are shim plates, not sure ) that were cut to a specific dim. with slotted holes and a certian thickness. You know nothing about the plates and have not seen any of them and they were sent to the job site, then the PM at the shop gets a email stateing that they wont a C of C ( certificate of compliance ) stateing they were the correct material and size Signed by the QC Manager. You tell the PM that you cant sign because you new nothing about them, he goes to the CEO at the shop telling him that you stated you couldnt sign the C of C then all h$#@ breaks loose. What would you guys do in this situation

Strat
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 11-05-2011 20:56
strat

They were sent to the job site from where?
The Sub you had make the parts?

Marshall
Parent - - By strat (**) Date 11-05-2011 20:58
Hey Marshall,
The parts were made at our shop and sent to the job site from our shop
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 11-05-2011 21:07
strat

Do you have a paper trail?
Cant your procedures assure you that the material sent to the customer is the material which  is required?

If not then I wouldn't sign and if they asked me to I would be looking for another job because I couldn't ethically.

Good Luck
Marshall
Parent - By strat (**) Date 11-05-2011 21:30
Marshall

When the PM approched me with this that was the first that I had heard about it, I went to the CEO at the shop ( our shop ) after the PM had told him that I would not sign the C of C, he got pissed slaming his fist on his desk telling me to get the h$#@ out and that he would sign the d%$# thing and that I didnt trust the PM that did the work, now aint that some crap, luckly that same day another company called me looing for a CWI. You know Marshall what really gets me is that no one had told me about the plates, if I had known that this other company was going to call me at the time I was in his office I would have just walked of the job then, like you said I couldn't ethically.

Strat
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 11-05-2011 22:21
As the QC Manager, you have a responsibility to document this on a NCR or CAR if they were manufactured and shipped without the proper inspections under your quality program.  If any repercussions occur, you are protected under federal law since this is nuclear.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-06-2011 16:54 Edited 11-06-2011 18:36
The first thing I suggest to any CWI or SCWI is to learn how to use the grammar and spell check functions that are included with every word processing program. Use them before submitting any written communication to an employer or client. A CWI that wishes to be taken seriously and wants to be treated as a professional must conduct himself as a professional. A SCWI or CWI's written reports and correspondence should exhibit a degree of professionalism which can be aided with a simple spell check before the report is submitted.

Next, you noted that you work in a facility that fabricates per ASME and AISC requirements. Both AISC and ASME require the fabricator to develop and implement a QC/QA program that ensures the customer’s requirements were met. The QC program should include a mechanism that ensures the proper materials were used and where necessary, proper documentation, i.e., material test reports, qualified WPSs, etc. were employed. It sounds as though the system failed in this situation. As QC manager, it should be one of your functions to determine how and why the system failed.

I cannot recollect a single situation where materials supplied to a nuclear site didn’t require complete material traceability. I find it difficult to imagine the project manager or the plant manager in this case didn’t know beforehand material test reports would be required for materials supplied to the site.

As a CWI you are bound to the Code of Ethics (COE) contained in QC1. The COE is a condition of accepting the AWS credential and it applies to the conduct of the individual holding the CAWI, CWI, or SCWI credential. The COE applies to all the work performed by the SCWI, CWI, or CAWI whether it is convenient to do so or not. As such, it would be a breach of the COE for you to sign for work that you do not have firsthand knowledge of.

There are employers that do not understand or they chose not to understand the responsibilities of the SCWI, CWI, or CAWI. The employer is not bound by the COE and therefore cannot be held accountable by the AWS. However, the individual that holds the AWS credential can be and will be held accountable for their actions. You have to ask yourself, “What are my employment opportunities if my AWS credentials are revoked by AWS?”

You did the right thing by refusing to sign for work that you had no firsthand knowledge of. As a CWI you have to make some hard choices. If the employer can back you into a corner and you buckle, you have lost the game. Your employer will “own” you and you will be forced into the corner time after time after time. At some point you will be charged with a breach of the COE and it can cost you your AWS credential.

Your post asks the question, "What would you do?"

I've had similar situations during my career. When the owner or the Engineer failed to work with me to correct the situation, I found a new employer. One situation involved a project where several welders were allowed to weld structural joints connecting primary members even though they were not qualified welders. As a matter of fact, four of the welders had less than one week's experience as welders. When the Engineer was informed of the situation he said it was "OK. Let them keep on welding." I walked off the job and refused to work with that engineer on projects since.

On another project I had a shop supervisor working for me that was a habitual liar. One lie involved an unauthorized repair of a bridge girder. I went to the owner of the company and said the supervisor had to go or I had to leave. I couldn't work with a person that couldn't be trusted. The owner said he couldn't fire a lifetime friend and it will blow over, "give it some time." I loaded my gear and left the company in less than an hour.

At the time it was difficult to justify my actions other than to rationalize by saying it was the right thing to do. Saying "goodbye" to a steady paycheck isn’t easy. However, both experiences have had positive effects on my career. As people say, "Your reputation precedes you."

Best regards – Al
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 11-07-2011 11:52
Our procedures make it so I can trace the material back to the purchase order to see what grade material was ordered.  Unless the guys grabbed the wrong material you should be able to determine what was ordererd and go from there.
Any nuclear work as well as public work (MTA,DOT) I assume they want full tracability.
Parent - - By strat (**) Date 11-07-2011 20:43
We do have a QC/QA program that addresses and ensures that the costomer's requirements are met. We have done a few jobs for this nuclear location and before each job I would send all certs and qualification, mtr's, wpq's that they require before the job is even started, after completion I will fill out a c of c stateing the the job was done in compliance to the specific Code. These particular plates or that job was done without my knowledge therefore I did not look at them, check dim., verify holes in location, verify correct material. And what Al stated " There are employers that do not understand or they chose not to understand the responsibilities of the SCWI, CWI, or CAWI." couldnt have been said better. I can trace the PO to see if the right material was purchesed, I can verify with mtr the material that was purchesed but I cant verify that that was the material used, dim, ect. Then when the CEO starts ramping and raven, that just leaves a sour taste and is kinda hard to take.

strat
Parent - - By visualguy Date 11-07-2011 22:19
Just my  two cents. I would think that for any nuclear job that a final dimensional inspection would be required by the QA program, not to mention some receipt inspection when the material first arrived at your shop. If not done than I would let someone else sign the certificate. Sometime you just have to make a stand and let the chips fall where they may.
Parent - By eekpod (****) Date 11-09-2011 11:47
Ahh I see.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / What would you do

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