Keystone Pipeline Cancelled CANADA looks to CHINA

Date 11-14-2011 12:29

Holy Cow!!! Well, when your in the business to make money then you do what you have to do. No issues from me against the Canuks! Must be part of this entire governments plan to "put Americans back to work". If this is the Canadian way to "push" this administration into acting fast I'd like to say I'm sorry but it won't work. Seems as though the folks in Washington D.C. are "dummer than a bag of hammers" and I doubt they'll get the picture.

But then again for folks that seem to be trying to force us out of our vehicles and into the horse and buggy this would be a good move as our gas prices will probably sky rocket now. Idiots.....

By up-ten

Date 11-14-2011 14:53

I'd rather see it go to the US than to China, it would seem rather important to keep the neighbour happy and keep the $$$$ in North America.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 11-14-2011 15:23

Agreed up-ten, but as I always say, you can't fix stupid and it has run amuck in Washington....

Seems instead of just saying, we'll see what we can do in 2013, an administration that was truely concerned with (a) jobs, (b) the economy, (c) keeping his job, would say something more along the lines of, I will get people right on this that will work with TransCanada to resolve the current issue immediatly by looking at alternative routes to avoid the aquafers and move this project forward. Instead, it's I'll get back with ya on that one.

By Northweldor (***)

Date 11-14-2011 16:29 Edited 11-14-2011 16:44

Again, the facts are:
1) Keystone XL is NOT cancelled.

2) State Department, NOT Obama, ordered new environmental assessment on grounds of funny business by Trans-Canada on first one.

3) Enbridge (Wrangler) is offering an alternative to Keystone.

4) Solutions (like Gateway) proposing a Valdez-like terminal in the Strait of Juan de Fuca are long way from possibility of approval, and both Canadian railways are gearing up for more rail transport by double hulled tanker.

commonarc is intent on a political rant, rather than providing accurate information.

By commonarc (**)

Date 11-14-2011 16:50 Edited 11-14-2011 16:55

Let me give you a little lesson in the U.S. branches of government my Canadian friend. The State Department is part of the Executive Branch of the U.S. government (i.e. 0bama). The other two being the Judicical and Legislative branhces.

The EXECUTIVE BRANCH is controlled by President Obama. He can pick up the phone and tell the State Department to apporve the Keystone pipeline. He's the boss. He can fire or hire anyone he wants at the State Department. The State Department IS 0bama. Get it?

The Keystone project is as good as cancelled for the next 2 years +. If 0bama gets re-elected it will be delayed for at least 6 years. The Canadian PM is not going to wait that long to sell this oil and the Far East wants all you guys can produce. Hope this clears things up. Now get back to work and start polluting and raping Canada's pristine wilderness to produce oil for the Chinese. Can't wait to hear how that BC pipeline is contaminating all the water up there in Canada

By commonarc (**)

Date 11-14-2011 17:01

Making national news in both the USA and Canada. Delays may kill the Keystone pipeline. Canadian PM is pissed off......
This pipeline project is DEAD.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45279733

The delay could end up killing the $7 billion (Keystone) project altogether if supporters back out or the administration is unable to chart a new route.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 11-15-2011 02:50

To the liberal thinkers at CNBC, this is Our president looking out for Our best long term interests, and sticking it to BIG OIL.

They consider this GOOD NEWS, regardless of what those of Us with other points of view may think.

What do I think ? If You want to look at other routs, GET ON WITH IT, AND FIND ONE. Not in 3 years, how about 6 months ???

By js55

Date 11-14-2011 22:12

Northwelder,
The State Department works for Obama. If its the State Department IT IS Obama!!!! Unless your claiming Hillary's gone rigue.
The assessments had already been complete.
And of course it isn't cancelled. Its being delayed until after the election so Obama can play politics with both his environmental and labor constituency. He's voting present yet again. He tells his enviromental folks we are looking closer to make sure everything is OK, and he's telling his labor folks to hang on we ain't done yet. It has the stink of politics all over it and nothing of a concern about jobs or the American economy. Walking the rhetorical tight rope to get those critical green and labor votes. Once he becomes a lame duck its a who cares.

By commonarc (**)

Date 11-14-2011 23:03

I can assure you that any approval of this pipeline will require the use of an ALL UNION labor force. That way the dues money can be kicked back to the Demcoratic Party. Depend on it. If this pipeline ever gets built, it's going to be union labor only.

By Black Wolf (**)

Date 11-19-2011 22:27

I'm going to have to RESPECTFULLY disagree with you on this one Bob. I have family involved in all kinds of industies - Grain Farms, Dairy Farms, Logging, Oilfield etc and I just do not see the benefit of bending over backwards to keep our associates to the South happy. Every time someone in the U.S. gets their nose in a snit, they shut down the borders on our products, and dream up a bunch of hoops for us to jump through to get back in their good graces. It does not make good business sense to put all your eggs in one basket - This is no different. A strong and diverse portfolio of trading partners should (On Paper) ensure that we have consistent pricing and demand.

I am no political scientist or economist... Just a Truck Driver, Mechanic, and Welder, but all my life it seems like we (Canada) are so dependant on the U.S. that we would be wise to shop our products and resources elsewhere.

Again, not being an economist, I don't know why we don't build the refineries here ourselves, and service all OUR energy requirements FIRST then sell off the surplus... Dunno WHY pricing on oil is dependant on what a barrel of Texas Intermiediate Crude sells for.... It is another friggin' country. Who Cares?

When I was driving truck, one of my jobs was pulling Super 'B' Trains for Gibsons, and I hauled truckload after truckload of refined Condensate from the refinery in Taylor BC up to Wabasca (Pellican City) or Nipisi and dumped it into the pipeline just to get the Bitumen to flow and not clog up in the lines... We are WASTING energy and resources just to push raw product down a pipeline so it can be processed in ANOTHER COUNTRY so THEY have "Cheaper Fuel"

Maybe it's the day, and I am just in a Pissy Mood, but after all the garbage and hatred on this forum about "Foreigners" and all the crappy comments degrading Canadians, I figure turn-a-bout is fair play, and THEY can get the shaft for a while... If we farm our resources elsewhere, and they can't run their vehicles and are freezing their asses off, they MIGHT learn some appreciation and better manners.

My sincerest apologies to the American Members on this forum that I have offended by my comments - This in NOT intended as personal. I just don't appreciate having Canada treated as the Retarded Big Brother of the U.S. that is too stupid to see when it is being SCREWED.

By 99205

Date 11-20-2011 01:18

It's all about politics and big money. When those two things start working together, common sense flies right out the window.

By 2006strat (***)

Date 11-15-2011 15:10

Sorry to all the People who are against this but it looks like it's gonna happen! A different route will be planned!

By Northweldor (***)

Date 11-14-2011 23:25

Nitro:
If you are really interested in other reasons besides the ones already mentioned, you might want to look at this report.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GEOIW7sWX00J:www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf+Cornell+Pipe+Dreams&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgaWD8uz0YBIa5IEnvicw81DnSzC2Edu7aG4JhT9eOwwLtwkxFMEdBg2f8hQqP6_KHhT6AkWenYyBScgA0qdKgF3HaTTpNMqgA06axLvh-25Vli-YnnbudKAfIDDkg_cv9bPPjY&sig=AHIEtbSsZlh-cfwxyWiB-XjbyXZx-tzdHw

The issue is far more complex than can be discussed here, and the extent to which TransCanada (and the API) have been lying to the public is staggering, and goes beyond simple political considerations.

By commonarc (**)

Date 11-15-2011 01:49 Edited 11-15-2011 01:59

The link you posted is from the Cornell Global Labor Institute? Communists, global justice socialists and green job fanatics. Bought and paid for by every left wing whack job organization and union out there. Here's a list of thier partners Note the real crazy ones starting with 350.org. This is a RADICAL leftist organization. These are the same smelly parasites who are camped out in cities all over the USA. So-called OWS loons. Check out the crazies yourself starting with www.350.org. Now put the bong down up there in Canada and pick up the stinger. Weld some pipe up there in the oil sands and tear up another couple of hundred square miles of dirt doing it as the world needs oil:

The Cornell Institute of Global Labor is the center where unions come together and work on Labor to strenghten the response in order to supply challenges posed by globalization. The Institute is the answer, solution or provider of Labor of unions. As the primarily goal of the Institute is growth with the help of union officers, staff and activists to gain a broader and deeper knowledge on the policies and Institutions that shape today´s world. Indeed bringing the unionists in contact with each other on strategy and policy.

The Global Labor Institute organizes forums and conferences that bring union leaders from around the world to meet with union leaders and activists based in the United States to discuss and debate issues of international solidarity, workers rights, climate change, green jobs and global justice

Global Labor Institute Partners

The Cornell Global Labor Institute has partnered with many organizations since its launch in 2005. These include:

Unions
AFL-CIO
Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU)
American Federal State County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME)
American Federation of Teachers (AFT)
Canadian Auto Workers (CAW)
Canadian Labour Congress (CLC)
Communication, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada (CEP)

Communication Workers of America (CWA)
International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE)
International Association of Heat and Frost Insulators and Allied Workers
International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, Blacksmiths, Forgers and Helpers (IBB)
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW)
International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT)
International Longshoremens Association (ILA)
International Longshore and Warehouse Workers (ILWU)
International Transport Workers Union (ITF)
Laborers International Union of North America
National Domestic Workers Alliance
Seafarers International Union (SIU)
Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU)
Service Employees International Union (SEIU)
Transport Workers Union (TWU)
United Auto Workers (UAW)
United Farm Workers of America
United Mine Workers of America (UMW)
United Steelworkers (USW)
Utility Workers Union of America (UWUA)

NYC/NYS Locals
1199SEIU United Healthcare Workers East
American Federal State County and Municipal Employees Local 420
Associated Musicians of Greater New York, Local 802
Communication Workers of America Local 1109
Communication Workers of America Local 1180
District Council 37/ AFSCME
Domestic Workers United
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 3
Laborers Eastern Region Organizing Fund
New York State United Teachers (NYSUT)
Professional Staff Congress CUNY (PSC CUNY)
Screen Actors Guild (SAG)
Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Local 32BJ
Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Local 1199

Sheet Metal Workers International Association (SMWIA) Local 137
Social Service Employees Union (SSEU) Local 371
Transport Workers Union Local 100
United Federation of Teachers (UFT)
United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) Local 1500
Utility Workers Union of America (UWUA) Local 1-2
Writers Guild of America East (WGA East)

Organizations collaborating with GLI on Content and Programs

350.org
Blue-Green Alliance
Center for American Progress
Center on Wisconsin Strategy (COWS)
Environmental Defense Fund (EDF)
European Trade Union Confederation
Food and Water Watch
Friedrich Ebert Stiftung (FES)
Global Coalition for Climate Action (GCCA)
Global Labor Strategies
Institute for Policy Studies
International Transport Workers' Federation
Jobs with Justice
Labor Network for Sustainability
Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC)
Public Services International Research Unit
Realizing Rights: The Ethical Globalization Iniative
Red Vida
Sustainlabour Foundation
Third World Network
Trade Union Advisory Committee (TUAC) to the OECD
Transportation For America
UC Berkeley Labor Center
Union of Concerned Scientists
University of Oregon Labor Education and Research Center
US Climate Action Network
Via Campesina
Workforce Development Institute
Worldwatch Institute

By 99205

Date 11-15-2011 05:21

I find this rabid, anti union rambling interesting. Shows me that our education system is doing poorly at teaching history.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-15-2011 05:33

I'm not convinced of that.

Historically, Yep,,, Unions have given us competative wages, worker safety (the good parts of OSHA) and a few other excellent things.

What unions have done in the last 25 years? Your going to have to work pretty hard to find anything positive to say.

I have no beef with collective bargaining... But the political side of unionionisim? Where 85% of every dues dollar goes? I've got some real heartburn with those activities.

By 99205

Date 11-15-2011 07:53

Yes there are negatives involves with Unions today. As far as the money goes I may be more than qualified to answer that question because I am a Executive Board member of a Union. Government regulations tightly control how union money is accounted for. A very, very small portion of a members dues goes to our Unions National Fund. The International Unions Headquarters use that money for Washington, DC use. Any money that is going to go to a local politician or organization has to be approved by the membership in a open vote at the monthly meetings. A big majority of the dues goes into funds that are directly used by our business owners to help with bidding on jobs. Every penny of our funds are accounted for every month by fund trustees or independent accounting agencies as required by government regulations. Now, my concern is who is watching how Big Business contributes to politicians. I wonder where the american worker would be today if there was no voice in Washington for them, be they non union or union. I believe unions only represent about 12 percent of the work force today. If you listen to Fox news that 12 percent is destroying Americas competitiveness. Give me a break. Big Business does not want any competition in Washington. The best way to achieve that goal is to destroy any type of voice that the working man will have in government. I personally have seen our own lawyers go after companies that have cheated non union workers out out monies due them and recover more that a hundred thousand dollars for those guys. There are always two sides of a story, sometimes people don't want to read the whole story.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-15-2011 12:22

Your union is unique indeed. I'm glad you have such control over your dues dollars.

The VAST majority of AFLCIO unions, teachers unions, IAM, UAW, and Teamsters send 85% of every dues dollar *away* from the local...

If my dues dollars (Yes I'm a member) were to go to labor issues I would be a bit more content.

But my dues dollars go to support political candidates and organizations who think first about supporting Abortion, Pelosi, 70K for unskilled labor, glorifying of sin in public school curriculum, opposing home schooling etc.

Anyhow... I've strayed from topic.

That 12 percent isn't destroying America... But they ruined GM, Chrysler most of the major airlines who took govt. bailouts. They have given teachers a bad name for the first time ever in the midwest, and it will be a long time before they can recover even if the unions do wake up and smell the coffee and adjust their *demands* to fit the times we live in.

By js55

Date 11-15-2011 12:48

99205,
That unions improved conditions at one time in our history is no defense of the corruption, payoffs, back room deals, waste, lies, and self perpetuation that is inherent in the organizations today.
You may wish to stick your head in the sand and ignore it but I, as a 30+ year member expect something better.

By 99205

Date 11-16-2011 01:41

The same could be said about the Corporate Culture in this country.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-16-2011 04:28

Oh. So two wrongs make a right?

Nice philosophy.

When somebody points out something is bad,, Just point at another bad thing.

By 99205

Date 11-16-2011 05:25

Obviously this discussion has become another exercise in belittlement. Have a good day.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-16-2011 12:19

What belittlement?

Our conversation.. At your direction moved toward the "history" of unionisim and how our education system is inadequately presenting the golden nuggets of wisdom the unions have bestowed on the American worker.

Then you went on to offer us your personal union pedegree and make the bold statement that 85% of your dues money stays local.... If this is true you are the one and only union local that does this... EVERY OTHER union across the fruited plain keeps virutally nothing local as far as dues dollars go... Come on man, how much money does it take for local collective bargaining? NOT BLOODY MUCH... The rest of dues dollars LEAVE the local and only a moron who has been tricked or has swallowed the kool-aide thinks any differently.. You want talk about belittlement... Hold on tight little man. The woodshed is still out back.

You throw out your little "facts" and when they are addressed you either ignore them or cry foul... Maybe you should stick to talking about welding... Your posts in that area are excellent.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-16-2011 12:47

Let's take just a moment and look at union "history" as it applies to the organizations who actually employ the vast majority of AFLCIO union represented laborers who might weld or work with metals... Teamsters, IAM, UAW

1970s This is the decade that these unions abandoned the tradition of apprenticeship..

1980's This is the decade when the unions inacted the "B" Scale... Where older union members sold out their Journeyman brothers who were newly hired, allowing them to take a lesser pay scale even thought they might be more productive and better craftsmen than the people who voted away their money.

1990's This decade brought us the ESOP Where the unions jumped into bed with not just management but the shareholders too... They told union membership that they would be epowered by becomming part owners of the companies they worked for and all they had to do was give up 20% of their salary in exchange for "preferred" stock certificates... 20 years later the companies have their money, the share holders have there money, but the union members are wiping their backsides with there "preferred" stock because it's value was 100% erased.

Yes kiddies.. The history of unionisim and how the unions protect the working man is something that should be taught in every school to every child... We can teach about Roosevelt and Carnege too... But lets look at the whole picture..

Please I encourage other members to post about anything good the unions have done for the "working man" since the 1970's... Let's hear it!

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-16-2011 13:37

Boilermakers, Steamfitters, Millwrights and Ironworkers are about the only exceptions as they make it a point to represent only skilled labor. Sadly they only make up less than 1% of the 12 percent of workers that fall under union representation.

By Nitrowelding (**)

Date 11-15-2011 01:58

I got to page 31 and I'm taking a break, Transcanada paid for the study and perryman gave them the results they paid for! Who ever commissioned the Cornell study has an opposing point of view. I'll read the rest after my eyes uncross

By commonarc (**)

Date 11-15-2011 02:02

I'll save you the effort.

Cornell Commies say Oil and USA BAD
Unions, social justice, vegan living and windmills GOOD

By Pickupman (***)

Date 11-15-2011 04:09

This was just on our 10 o clock news. Transcanada has agreed to relocate the pipeline to go around the Nebraska sand hills and avoid the Ogallala aquifer. Sounds like it will go ahead in time.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 11-15-2011 04:17

That is good news in general, and really good news for those of You who might work on it.

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 11-15-2011 13:27

Here we go again- another political rant on a welding forum.
My response is from someone south of the equator with no USA political considerations at all.
To all the Obama haters - do you really think he makes these decisions himself ? Come on, he has a milion "advisers" telling him what to do.
If you want to get angry, do it at the party - not at the person.
Unless I am totally mistaken the US President is just a figurehead for the money men in the background - hang on, sorry, I was getting confused with the Bush administrations.
Regards,
Shane

By Northweldor (***)

Date 11-15-2011 13:49

Shane:

But it's so much easier to attack anyone who brings the message you disagree with than to deal with the facts!

By Metarinka (****)

Date 11-17-2011 00:15

This is why I avoid political discussion on this forum. It's too polarizing, although in my observation I would say the majority of welders are conservative (probably due to demographics)

anyways
-on the one hand Obama personally picked up the phone and killed this pipeline so the green jobs and hippies could plant 100% organic soybeans and windmills and to stick it in the face of the people who want jobs
- on the other hand, transcanada payed off the state department and cut corners on the environmental impact study and are building a pipeline through a watershed that supplies millions. Cause if they cut corners with the enviornmental impact they'll probably cut corners with the construction right (BP in kansas anyone?)

The truth is probably somewhere between these extremes. To my knowledge the push for this reaxamination did not come from the cabinet level or obama as has been insinuated. Of course, green organizations have been lobbying hard and trying to see what sticks in terms of legal injunctions to stop the pipeline or have it reaxamined. I think there is heightened sensitivity to cross country pipelines through sensitive watersheds that has many of the people in the affected pathway concerned. I'm sure kansas would love the jobs, but how many billions would it cost when the pipeline leaks into their drinking water.

In the end I hope due process works, the correct engineering, adminstrative and legal processes are followed and the best outcome for the country is achieved. I don't have time to demonize the president regardless of political affiliation, I just want sound decisions that aren't based on talking points or selective information. Unfortunately that's asking too much from today's political climate. Discourse has gone down the drain as seen by commonarc's ranting.

By js55

Date 11-15-2011 20:09

Shane,
And so a President who claims the buck stops here, who claims responsibility, who has taken upon himself the mantle of leadership should not be held responsible? If he's a puppet all the more reason to blame him, not less.
And I am sorry to see you falling into the typical American liberal ploy of invoking the name of Bush to justify actions by Obama, seemingly unaware that many conservatives also ciriticized Bush for his faults. Bush was never considered sacrosanct as is Obama.
It just seems rather odd to me to defend Obama by claiming Bush did it too in a context of criticizing Bush. The logic escapes me.

By fitter

Date 11-15-2011 23:36

thanks for the info pickupman. the only bad thing about this news is that for now anyway ,we are losing the commonarc comedy hour!Commonarc, take a deep breath,calm down. Maybe you should hit the bong a few times. WTF is wrong with you?

By fitter

Date 11-16-2011 00:12

One more thing common, you are right, those people camped out all over our great country really are smelly parasites, especially the veterans you moron!

By commonarc (**)

Date 11-16-2011 01:07

You mean the people pooping on the streets and pooping on police cars? Raping women in tents? There are so many hypo needles lying around that they need to wear HazMat suits to sterlizie the place. Sounds like one of your Union job sites!

By fitter

Date 11-16-2011 09:35

Can't talk anymore, getting ready for work. You should try working some time Common, you may like it.

By Northweldor (***)

Date 11-16-2011 23:31

I found commonarc's source of inspiration!!! :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showi

By Pickupman (***)

Date 11-16-2011 01:12

It was in all our papers today too. Sounds like a done deal as soon as the paper work is done. I hope it won't take too long, but winters here now so.....

By 522029

Date 11-16-2011 00:25

I must agree with you Shane. You are indeed confused.

Griff

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-17-2011 00:43

Of course there will be political ranting.

This is a very big international project that has a huge impact on energy, jobs and the environment.

I agree that President Obama isn't making the decisions alone... He is simply a party line democrat.. He isn't doing anything any other U.S. national level Democrat wouldn't do... The difference is only that he seems to be a bit more effective than some of the others at getting *some* of his party items put forward or stopped.

And no you might not be confused with the Bush administration.. There is just as much big business and wall street money behind democrats as there are republicans... How can this be? Prolly because who ever is in power is gonna be influenced by all that money.