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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS D1.6 Qualification 6G Position
- - By Ke1thk (**) Date 01-09-2012 20:35
Question: Is the 6G test position (Welder Qualification) a fixed position?

I have a disagreement with a friend.  He allows welders to turn their part during their weld test while I don't.  They don't spin the test on a turntable, but they do rotate the test fixture four or five times.  I say that the test isn't really a 6G qualification. 

Am I being too picky?

Keith
Parent - By kilgoretrout (*) Date 01-09-2012 20:44
Looks like your friend is about to have to retest some welders.  The 6G is not a rolled out weld test.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-09-2012 20:55

>Question: Is the 6G test position (Welder Qualification) a fixed position?


Yup, it sure is.
AWS D1.1:2010 page 160 Figure 4.4 D shows a picture of a 6G test and under the picture it reads:

"Pipe inclination fixed (45°,+/-5°) and not rotated during welding."
I would say that you are not being picky at all, just calling it like you see it.
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 01-09-2012 21:19
John, you meant D1.6 right?
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-09-2012 21:34 Edited 01-09-2012 21:37
Hi Chris,
Nah, I was looking at D1.1:2010. The entire page 160 is dedicated to pipe and tubing welding positions.
See clause 4.3.4 for the paragraph that directs you to the pictures in Figure 4.4.

:red:EDIT: whoops, now I see where I went wrong...I failed to read D1.6 in the OP's title to the thread. I have a bad habit of hitting the new posts button and it displays all of the newest postings....I just didn't catch that he was asking about D1.6.

Never mind me...I'll go back to my corner.:roll:
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-09-2012 21:40
Now that I'm looking at D1.6:2007, Figure 4.3 (D) on page 89 shows and says the same thing as mentioned earlier in D1.1.
See clause 4.1.9 for the wording that directs you to this Figure.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-10-2012 00:25
I would have thought 6G was 6G no matter which code... But, as I don't use or have D1.6 I'm glad you clarified that.  Now we know that it is the same between those two codes.

And looking at A3.0 Welding Terms & Def's under 'Welding Positions' it tells you to see Figures B 16-21.  Figure B19 shows the pipe positions and says the same about 6G, "FIXED".

Thus, as all the codes should be referencing the same terminology authorized by AWS you would think they would ALL be the same.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 05:21 Edited 01-10-2012 05:27
There is nothing wrong with allowing the welder during a performance test to back gouge the root of the single sided groove weld (with or without backing) or to rotate the pipe while welding it if the applicable welding standard is FC2002.

Thank the good Lord for FC2002. It has pulled me out of several sticky situations over the years. I find that it is widely used in the Corn Belt and some of Cajon country. From some of the posts I've read here in the Forum I would venture to say it is starting to starting to see wide applications in the oil patch. It really works well with piping systems when there is any question about the welder's skill. As a matter of fact, when I saw those photographs of the welds observed in the RR yard, it reminded me that it is usually easier to get the Engineer to buy the welds off (if you show him FC2002) rather than repairing them.

If you don't have a copy of FC2002, I'm sure it can be located easily if you do a search.

All kidding aside, it amazes me how inventive people can get when they read a welding standard like the D1.X and ASME sections. You have to wonder if they know how to read at all. I guess that is a case where just because one can read, it doesn’t mean they are functionally literate.

The bright side is it is what keeps us gainfully employed.

Best regards - Al  :razz:
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 12:42
Al,
I was about half way through your first sentance before I realized you were being sarcastic. Forgive my initial dismay. :smile:
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 01-10-2012 14:19
Just printed out a copy of FC 2002.  It's going to be a fun day. :grin:
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 15:12
I thought it might be good for a laugh.

Life it too short to take it too seriously.

Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 15:55
Ain't it the truth. I have an audit of my nuclear program starting tomorrow.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 16:05
The only advice I can offer is to keep a sense of humor. Ignore the pain.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 19:49
I've been through so many audits I'm calloused to the bone. Sometimes they'll beat on ya mercilessly and then at the end of it tell you everything looks fine.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 20:27
...and I'm in the middle of an AISC audit this very minute....LOL, I'm sure this audit pales in comparison to your audit though.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 21:29
I get two AISC audits a year. And I'm moving into simple bridge. AISC can whoop up on ya pretty good too if you don't have your ducks in a row. We've got some good people here on our structural side that make life easier for me.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-10-2012 21:48
If you have the paint endorcement read up on the changes...I got surprised by a couple(no CARs thankfully). The AISC needs to let their customers know about changes and when they are coming down the pipe, especially if it's something that they are going to be audited on.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-11-2012 04:28
I have to do an audit tomorrow for a client engaged in NAVSEA TP278 work. Cradle to grave baby.

These usually take a couple of days to complete.

Al
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 01-10-2012 14:23
Ke1thk,

It is difficult to describe but as long as the welder does not remove the test pipe from the 45 degree position or rotate its fixed position, he is allowed to loosen the fixture holding the pipe and move it up or down and swivel it side to side.  Heck he can even stand on the table to obtain a better body position on the pipe.

Is that what you are talking about?

QCRobert
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-11-2012 14:38
FC2002 I think its time for a new edition or at least some addendums.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 01-12-2012 00:11
Guys,
This has been discussed quite thoroughly in previous posts.
You administer a welder qualification test to determine a welders ability to perform an acceptable production weld (wherever that may be).
All of my career has been site/field work so a welder must be able to weld in the position the pipe is installed in - you can't move it up or down, or side to side.
I never allow any movement of test coupon during the test - as long as the welder is made aware of this before starting the test there is no problem. If they cannot weld in a fixed position then they are no use to me on the job site.
Regards,
Shane
Parent - By Ke1thk (**) Date 01-12-2012 13:07
Thanks to All,

Great feedback.  The actual test was a 1" tube welded in a 45* positioned angle iron fixture.  The process was GTAW and the welder was seated.  The fixture was on a table. 

The welder would weld as far as he could, then stop.  He'd rotate the fixture 90* or so, and weld.  The fixture was rotated four or five times until the weld was completed.

Now I get inform my boss.

Keith
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS D1.6 Qualification 6G Position

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