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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Like a couple of opinions
- - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-12-2012 15:07
AWS D1.1 code and NYC construction codfe and specs

Under Inspection it states 10% of all manual fillet welds shall be tested by magnetic  particle method

For example you have a beam that has 10 stiffners   you MT  1 stiffner does that satisfy the 10% req

or do you have to MT 10% of the length of each and every fillet weld.

I know I know ask the engineer i did im waiting.

i just want some opinions   thanks
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-12-2012 15:38
I was taking it as more of an overall picture with the 10% requirement.
....10" out of every 100" of weld,

....or if several beams are similar, say they all have 10 stiffeners like in your example, then I would check a min of one beam(entirely, all of the welding) out of ten beams that were similar. I would try to inspect a good sample that represents the welding as a whole.
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 01-12-2012 19:38
I think the general 10% also.
So one weld out of 10 welds.
I've never had a problem or anyone sit down and determine how many welds or inches of weld there are for the entire project and determine how much has been MT inspected.
Just make sure you document your inspections clearly.
Let us know what your official reply is from the EOR.
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-13-2012 03:33
im still waiting on the answer i am sure its 10% of the total welds on the job

im having a little disagreement with the level 11 mt tech

its just like when they say 25% of all cjp joints shall be UT tested   you would test 25 out of 100 welds  you wouldnt ut

25"  out 100 " weld   imagine trying to only ut 2.5 " on a 10 " wide weld that would be ridiculous
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 01-13-2012 03:53
Had the same question answered for me about a month ago from A Sound Transit Engineer. It was for the total job. He said he didn't care how it was done, as long as it covered the 10-25-50 or 100% (different requirements for different thicknesses) of the total job.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 01-13-2012 05:28
Joe,
Both methods are recognised by AWS D1.1 (refer C 6.1.1)

A general description of weld test requirements may be specified
(e.g., “10% of the length of all fillet welds shall be inspected
by MT,” )

When spot checking is specified (e.g., 10% of all fillet
welds), it should not be taken to imply that the Contractor
be notified prior to welding which specific welds or portion
of welds shall be tested. It is a basic premise of the
specifications that if random tests or spot tests are made,
there should be a sufficient number of random tests to
give a reliable indication of weld quality.

Whichever way is required it must be nominated in contract documents,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-13-2012 06:28
it does not state 10% of weld length it says 10% of all fillet welds

Shane I think you gave an  excellant answer  thanks joe
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-13-2012 13:42
In reality joe you only asked for a couple of opinions so once john and chris responded Ctacker and shanes responses (as well as mine) are rendered invalid.  :grin:
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-13-2012 16:33 Edited 01-14-2012 17:26
I'll jump in at this point and add my opinion to the fray. After all opinions are like anuses, everyone has one, unless you are a married woman, in which case you have two, one of which you send one of them to work.

This is where the Engineer should provide direction to the testing lab or to the CWI responsible for ensuring the testing is performed to his (the Engineer's) satisfaction.

I would categorize the welds into individual welds with lengths less than 12-inches, continuous welds that are longer than 12-inches, but less than 60-inches, and continuous welds longer than 60-inches. Then I would specify how each group should be handled. It might looks something like this:

Individual welds less than 12-inches in length: 1 in every 10 welds is tested for their full length.

Continuous welds longer than 12-inches, but less than 60-inches: No less than 1 weld in every 10 welds shall be tested; the length of each test shall be no less than 6-inches. 

Continuous welds longer than 60-inches: 10% of the total weld length shall be tested, with no individual test being less than 6-inches. The initial test shall be performed at the center of the weld length. Either or both ends of the continuous weld shall be tested as needed to produce the required 10%.  As needed, successive tests shall be performed along the length of the weld to produce the required 10%.  

It would be great if the project specification includes the level of detail needed for clarity, but in the absence of detailed instruction, the inspector can propose an inspection plan to the Engineer for his review and approval.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 01-19-2012 00:18
"After all opinions are like anuses"

So your saying the title should read Like a couple of 4sses :twisted::twisted::twisted:
- - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-13-2012 23:49
and the answer is 10% of the total volume  so im done withmt since the ptevious  cwi mt every weld
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-15-2012 21:44
So, yu calclat the volom of ech weld and divid it buy 10?

El
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-15-2012 23:27
I can hear Joe Kane snickering all the way from NYC
Parent - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-16-2012 00:20
VeRi  fun NE
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 01-16-2012 00:59
itcud be yucalulate the totle weghtvolum enthen devideby10
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 01-17-2012 17:48
itcud b buh prolly nut
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 01-17-2012 18:33 Edited 01-18-2012 21:15
Here's my second opinion - even at the risk of being charged with plagiarism - "You're ugly too".

EDIT:
:confused::cool::cry::eek::evil::fat::grin::lol::mad::neutral::razz::red::roll::sad::slim::smile::surprised::twisted::wink::yell:

Here ya go Joe...pick the one's you need to use.
...LOL
edited-by the smarty britches moderator:razz:
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2012 12:55
so now were taking to personal insults grow up
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 01-18-2012 20:50
No!  It wasn't meant to be malicious or mean! I just couldn't resist the "Henny Youngman" opportunity from the title of your post/  I just didn't know how to put those emoticons at the end of the post.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-18-2012 21:16
Psst!...look back at the earlier post of yours.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Like a couple of opinions

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