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Up Topic Welding Industry / Metallurgy / Shop Demonstration on the effects of Preheat
- - By Welducator Date 01-17-2012 17:28
I'm trying to create a shop demonstration on the effects of preheat on weld properties.  Ideally, I'd like to make a small weld on some type of carbon steel material without preheat and then with preheat.  I'd then like to do some sort of test such as a bend test and have the non-preheated weld break open while the preheated weld bends without breaking.  This would clearly demonstrate the formation of a hard brittle microstructure cause by rapid cooling of the weld from a high temperature.  I have tried this approach on several types of Cr-Mo steels, but have not been able to get the straps to break open on a reliable basis. 

Are there any metallugists out there who may have tried something like this?  Do you have a type of steel you can recommend?  Is there some other approach that someone can suggest to clearly demonstrate the effects of preheat on weld properties?

Thanks for your reply
Parent - - By ozniek (***) Date 01-19-2012 13:27
Hi

I think that a bend test is probably a little too "rough" to show this point on a consistent basis. It will be a little "hit and miss". I would rather show the results of impact tests to demonstrate the point, but that is obviously not so "flashy" as a test infront of everybody.

Also remember that an elevated pre-heat or interpass temperature can also be detrimental, so the lesson that pre-heat is good, is not to be generalised.

Got a nice demo of phase transformations if you are interested.

Regards
Niekie
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 01-23-2012 12:58
Hey Niekie,
I am certainly interested in seeing the demo!
Can you send it to me?

Tyrone
Parent - - By ozniek (***) Date 01-23-2012 13:43
Hi Tyrone

I do not have a video of this demonstration, but I can describe it to you. It is very easy to implement. All you need is a length of steel wire, and austenitic stainless steel wire (e.g. 304 or 316 - Typically anything less than about 0.5mm diameter should do.) and a welding machine. (Any cheap SMAW welder will do.)

On a bench, attach your electrode holder and earth clamp, so that they are insulated from the bench and pointing outwards. Typically about 1.5m or more appart. (The wider appart, the more effective.) Then (while the welding machine is switched off) clamp the steel wire between the electrode holder and earth clamp so that it is relatively streight and rigid. Switch on the welder so that it in essence forms a short. The wire will heat up due to the resistance heating, and start expanding. (Becomes red hot and starts sagging.) When the wire gets to the lower phase transformation temperature of the steel (around 723°C) it will start to shorten again, resulting in the wire reversing the sagging motion, becoming more taught. Once the temperature exceeds the upper transformation temperature, the sagging again increases. At this point, switch off the power. (You do not really want the steel to get so hot that it collapses onto the floor!) You will see the same sequence, but only in reverse happens as the wire cools down again.

Follow the same steps as above with the S/Steel wire and you will notice that the "shortening" does not happen, because the austenitic stainless steel does not experience any solid state phase changes. It will only lengthen upon heating, and shorten upon cooling.

If the class is relatively large, it is a good idea to hang something bright, but lightweight from the middle of the wire so that the people at the back can also see the effect. (e.g. coloured paper tied on with a length of thin wire. Also have a background that you can see some contrast against. - e.g. large sheet of white paper.)

A simple but visually very effective tool in explaing phase transformations when teaching people phase diagrams.

Let me know if you try it.

Regards
Niekie
Parent - By Tyrone (***) Date 01-23-2012 16:53
Thanks for the tip Niekie.
I'll see what lying around here and give it a shot!

Tyrone
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 01-23-2012 19:37
Garage dilatometry. It actually sounds like a pretty cool test to witness.
I might add the phenomena is based upon volumetric changes with phase changes.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-24-2012 04:41
That sounds pretty neat.

Do You have an explanation as to why INVAR changes size so little over such a wide temperature range  that a mere mortal can understand?
Parent - - By ozniek (***) Date 01-24-2012 15:28
Hi Dave

Never really went into this before. After you asked the question I did a quick search to satisfy my curiosity. I came to the conclusion that the PHD types are still trying to figure it out, so the best they can provide are theories that are based on stuff us regular people can't understand. I suspect that as soon as someone will actually understand this, the explanation will be much simpler.

From a conceptual point of view, I guess it is not so difficult, but will probably not really answer your question, but I will go through the exercise in any case.

The change of a substance's volume really just equates to a change in the substance's density. The density of a crystalline substance is related to the atomic weight, its structural "packing" (crystal structure in our case) and attraction of the atoms that make up the structure. Given that the material we are looking at is constant (Invar) the atomic weight can not change, so this part falls away. The remaining factors are the crystal structure and attraction between atoms. Most metals will expand when heated. The common explanation being that the atoms vibrate more, so on average are further appart. This is true for a solid material when you are considering two atoms, but when you consider a large number of atoms vibrating, then on average there will be little difference in the average distance of the atomic spacing. The real reason is that the bonds holding the atoms become weaker with increasing temperature, resulting in a larger spacing. As long as nothing happens with the "packing density" of the crystal structure, the metal will expand.

There are many substances (mostly materials composed of more than one type of atom - In other words molecules or "alloys") that display different behaviour over relatively small temperature changes, that appear anomolous to us, because they may actually contract when the temperature increases. Mostly these are explained by minor changes in the "packing" of the atoms relative to each other. Not a big enough change to be considdered a phase change, but enough to counteract the expansion due to the reduction in atomic bonding attraction, and result in a contraction of the material over this temperature range while the temperature is increasing. To imagine this in your mind's eye, imagine that as the temperature increases, some of the atoms in the Invar crystal structure moves away from each other, but that this allows some of the other atoms to move closer together, because this would be a lower energy result for the material as a whole at that slightly higher temperature. The nett result being a contraction of the unit crystal size, rather than a change to the crystal structure as such, which can be seen as a volume contraction, or increase in density without a phase change.

Exactly what drives such behaviour in the case of Invar is what the clever people are trying to figure out. (And maybe have, only I have not seen anything that says this is definately how it works! Only a mish-mash of theories.)

I suspect this is not the definitave answer you were looking for, but may satisfy your curiosity for now. (Good enough for me, for now!)

Regards
Niekie
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-25-2012 01:23
Thanks for having a go at it. I had asked My cousin John Snyder, a physics PHD in magnetic thin films about it and got a similar response, so I guess if anybody has it figured out, they are not saying, or nobody has asked them.

I have only encountered Invar 2 times in My life. The first piece I made a part to construct a stacking fixture for precision electric motor lamnations in the late ;70s as an apprentice, and now last summer I found and purchased a chunk of it at the flea market at a steam & gas, engine & tractor meet.
Parent - By Tyrone (***) Date 01-23-2012 12:57
Hi Welducator,
Getting welds to crack on command is one of the hardest things to do! 
Here's some advice.

1)  Susceptable material - Cr-Mo steel is a good candidate.  (Use 1" thick plates)

2)  Restraint Level.  Groove or butt welds do not induce sufficient stress.  Go with high restraint t-joints.

3)  Low Heat Input.  Remember, the faster the travel speed, the lower the heat input  (VxA) / (T.S.)

Radiography will not detect the presence of micro fissures.  I had to section the joints and magnify 100X to see them.

If you have your heart set on doing bend tests, then I suggest increasing the hydrogen level, and try to heavily restrain your joint.

Good luck
Tyrone
Up Topic Welding Industry / Metallurgy / Shop Demonstration on the effects of Preheat

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