Was wondering if anybody out there knew about the legalities as Civil Engineers as welding inspectors. Since I left my former company over a year ago they have been having one of their P.E.'s (Professional Engineer) as their welding inspector despite the fact he knows nothing about welding. I worked with him for several years and he personally told me he knew nothing about welding. They had him doing it before I was a CWI. He does not want to do it but they force him. The company knows he knows nothing about welding as he has told them many times. I know it is easy to say he should refuse but he is over 60, in bad health, and probably can never find another job in this job market. I know he has been looking for a few years so it is pretty hard to risk getting fired knowing you will probably not find another Engineer job. It is a small company owned by a P.E. who has zero integrity or character but should know better. The company is poorly run and struggling to stay afloat so they are not going hire a CWI as long as they can make the P.E. do it and hope for the best. I recognize that welds are to be inspected by a "qualified person" but how strong is that P.E. "seal of approval?" This is a geotech company that mainly inspects concrete, soil, steel, etc. on mostly new commercial construction. As an inspector, I have some concerns. Namely, the safety of the buildings and the owner of the project is not getting the level of inspection they think they are paying for. Is this something you should report or since I don't work there leave it alone? Thanks in advance for the input.
definitely wrong. I knew a few P.E's that were welding inspectors they all obtained their CWI the proper way. The customer must not know better if they don't see a stamp on the work that says CWI...
either way this is not a great situation to be in for anyone, not the least the person who is killed when a structure fails.
Bruce
If your PE friend has been inspecting welds for "a couple years" Why in blazes hasen't he *LEARNED* how to look at a weld??????
It's no cake walk to become a professional engineer... A PE should be able to learn how to do basic weld inspection with a very short turn around... If this issue has been going on for years, your friend is lazy or there is more going on than you say.
I don't know a single code that requires a "CWI STAMP" to inspect a production weld. The contractor may elect to appoint anybody they feel is qualified to do the job.
Hi
As part of a PE registration, the engineer signs a code of conduct. All the codes of conduct that I have seen requires the PE not to perform work that he is not qualified to perform. If the PE is not carefull, he may loose his PE status!
Regards
Niekie
Metarinka, Lawrence, and Nieke all make very good points concerning this.
I don't know how every area does it, but here where I am at the Local jurisdiction let's PE's become Special Inspectors based upon their PE stamp. Then, they often invoke the clause from D1.1 that says they can 'duly designate' a person who is competent by training or experience. According to the engineer. (D1.1; 1.4, 6.1.4.1, & 6.1.4.3- not CAWI but Assistant Inspector).
So, even though the plans call out that Inspections shall be done by a CWI, they are able to send out some flunky to do work they aren't qualified to do. And we have several of them operating here in our area.
I have called them on several major mistakes in approval of WPS's that aren't even close to correct, especially for the job involved, allowing UT to be a substitute for continuous inspections of CJP Moment Connections, etc. Some actually learn from it and start calling to ask the opinion of a local CWI (usually me) before allowing certain items.
But how does one deal with these problems. Some of the local Quality Control contractors who use me as a CWI are also aware of this and are trying to get our local building officials to change the way they accept engineers for being approved Special Inspectors. They could oversee the work of the inspectors, but the work should be carried out by a Certified Inspector in the field requiring inspection.
Until these things are changed, I'm afraid there is little most of us can do without just being seen as sour grapes because we didn't get the work.
Have a Great Day, Brent
As they say "At the end of the day" a PE has the credentials and its his signature on the line, plus I would bet a PE can read and interpret any code they are working to very effectively.
RonG either you haven't worked with enough PE's, or you haven't worked with the right ones. Because they can get happy welding world all messed up at times.
J
No argument, I agree you are correct on that. What few I have worked with were very serious about their work and never hesitated to ask and follow experienced guidance.
I guess what I meant was that, if lend their PE credentials to a Doc. It’s their a$$ on the line but a PE does (should) demand a good deal of respect for their array of working knowledge.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am a CWI graduate engineer. My background is being part of the LU 1556 Dockbuilders ( practical geotechnical engineering ) and the Metropolitan Geotech Group ASCE New York. Been at it for a while. I would suggest carefully writing reports on such inspection. In general you are save saying what you see however not qualifying yourself. What worked for me with a lot of road time was a government job!
I hope this is helpful.
Sincerely
Len Andersen weld@spemail.org
914-536-7101 , 212-839-6599 8-4 New York Time , 914-237-7689 (H) www.lenandersen.com
bruce69
Interesting factoid. The recent New York City Building Code requires all welds to be inspected by a CWI. Even if you are a P.E., you must also be a CWI to do the weld inspection. This is a step in the right direction. Now, If we could only do something about the real CWIs out there who cannot use a Fillet Gauge! Hey! - I'm serious!!
I agree with Metarinka & Lawrence that if this guy's job requires Him to inspect welds, He should go about becoming certified to do it.
I am not a CWI, so I have not studied it, but it shouldn't be too hard for a GOOD engineer.
Now I must say that I have worked with a civil engineer who didn't know squat, but I doubt He was a liscenced PE.
Some of You may know the following joke ...
There are only 3 things You need to know to be a civil engineer:
1) Water runs down hill.
2)You can't push a rope.
3) When You fart in the bathtub, the bubbles go up.
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