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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / line-up tool
- - By Sourdough (****) Date 03-15-2012 14:28
I have seen line-up tools for taking high/low out of plate steel for reassembly at the joint, but I am wondering if someone has an idea for something quicker than welding tabs on and using spud bars and such. I am reassembling a few silos after cutting them in thirds to haul them to another location. We did our best to keep them together with the hardware we built while cutting them apart, but putting them back together will require these line-up tools. I bought one online because the price was right, but it is slow and clumsy. There are 3 of us trying to  get these operational by June, and there will be plenty of xray. Anything that you know of will help me to design a more efficient tool.........thanks.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 03-15-2012 18:25
Just had another thought Sourdough. If you have, can rent, or otherwise get ahold of a mag drill you can use the base of the drill to attach to one side of the plates and use the quill of the drill to apply pressure to the opposite side to bring it down into line. Would steer clear of the big old Milwaukees, but some of the Hougens, Jancys, or others might work pretty good. Good luck, Allan
- - By aevald (*****) Date 03-15-2012 14:47
Hello Sourdough, check out some of the tools that these folks have. I don't know how expensive they are, but they certainly look to have a lot of good stuff that might address your needs. If nothing else they might give you some ideas for fabbing your own. Good luck and best regards, Allan

http://www.fitupgear.com/videos.html
Parent - - By TozziWelding (**) Date 03-15-2012 17:14 Edited 03-15-2012 17:16
We always made screw, or wedge dogs and had at it.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 03-15-2012 17:21
Hi Tozzi, I have also done plenty with those types of tools. I believe Sourdough is trying to get away from having to tack and grind so much for his re-assembly. The nice thing about the tools that FitUpGear has is the use of magnets so that you avoid or limit the amount of tacks and grinding. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 03-15-2012 17:22
Aevald - I found my t handle madnet/lever bar on that site........perfect, thanks!

Tozzi, I have a couple bessey clamps that i modified like those that you use. I'm trying to get away with not stitch welding anything. Thanks!
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 03-15-2012 18:11
Sourdough, was that the one that you felt was clumbsy? Just curious. For fabbing something up you might see if you could use a mag-base(s) for dial indicators and come up with a levering system or possibly use one of the "Bear Paws" that shear operators use for handling plate and modify one of those. Good luck and best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-15-2012 19:21 Edited 03-15-2012 19:23
It would take a helluva magnet to move the plate I usually resort to wedges and dogs on.   I have a couple made up out of 1 inch stock and with the right hammer behind them they will pull anything.  I have never seen a magnetized plate dog.  I have done the same with clamps tho and it is more efficient in some cases.  A good bottle jack, a dog and an old truck leaf spring can line up long lengths of seam quickly with a lot fewer fit up welds. 

Sourdough are yall going to use some line up plates when you fit these back together?  Depending on the diameter 4-10 of those might save you some feet of pulling.  If you are fitting these vertically occasionally one guy working a pry bar and the other welding (fitting off level as you come down) can cover a lot of feet before you are forced to dog em down.  Just got to be careful not to pull out too much and run out of circumference.  I dunno man I figure you know all the tricks I know, sometimes the old school ways is all you got.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 03-15-2012 19:59 Edited 03-15-2012 22:12
Hello Tommy, I know what you mean about having to "dog" materials into place and certainly a lot of times a magnet would definitely not have enough "nuts" to make it happen. In this case it sounds as if Sourdough will be doing a lot of re-aligning and I suppose he would like to get it done as quickly as possible and with the least amount of residual prep and cleaning afterwards. I am also making an assumption (there's that scary word) that this is not "heavy plate", of course I don't know that, but he said these were silos. Used to put some tanks together, in a past life, and we would use line-up tabs that were either applied externally or internally to the tank components. These still require welding, removal, and finishing when you go this route or follow something similar. Yet in the big scheme of things this could be a possibility. I'll throw in a few pictures to illustrate. Maybe a few others can include pics of "key plates" I believe most of the actual "tankies", hope I have that term correct, use those a ton for tank fabrication. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-15-2012 21:56 Edited 03-15-2012 21:58
There ya go Allan, exactly what I am talking about with line up plate.  I have used that on big pipe before when it was nothing but a chain on a trackhoe to fit it up.  Speaking of big magnets....anyone know of a source for powerful magnets with switches or at least a mounting stud on them.  Kinda like the mag ground clamps I mean...I have some tool ideas I would like to build.

BTW thanks Sourdough for a meaty post that has something to do with actual real live welding work!
Parent - - By CCash Date 03-16-2012 00:10
Sourdough,
How big is the silo? Any way someone could be inside with a piece of pipe and a screw head off a pipe stand. Push against the opposing wall and work around the joint? Should be able to flush out that way, push the low out instead of the high in?  Just a thought.....
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-16-2012 00:47
Hey that is a good one!!! pretty sharp.
Parent - By CCash Date 03-16-2012 00:52
Thanks,:smile:
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 03-16-2012 02:23
Exactly CCash, now that's ingenuity. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 03-16-2012 04:05
Not on this one boys, it's 24 ft in diameter.
Parent - By CCash Date 03-16-2012 05:36
Yep, that would be a bit of a challange. It would suck for the two guys going up and down the latter on each end of the pipe. And for the guy tacking on the outside. Please post what you decide on, I'm always looking for new ways solve a problem, I've learned alot from all of you on this forum. Good luck with your project.
Cheers, Cash
( In reading this post I could see how it could be taken as snarky, not sure how to re-word it otherwise, its not intended as such. I'm NOT a pipeliner, l'm just a field and equipment repair welder in the construction world)
Parent - By J Hall (***) Date 03-16-2012 02:44
That magpry looks pretty slick. I've normally just tacked the corner of a chunk of flatbar and pryed.
- - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-16-2012 06:20
Throwin in 2 cents.  Ok don't know the silo wall dimension but up to 1/4" how about this:  set one section on top of another. Use some line ups like Allen showed. You need to dog out the high low, you lay a beam- any kind of beam, like a light weight 4 X 4 wood beam or a small diameter [1 1/2" sched. 40/80] length of pipe across the top of the upper section.  Hang a line down from that or a chain hoist.  To the end of that elevation adjustable chain hoist you attach [with a sling or a clevis] a length of small diameter pipe with screw dogs fabricated into their ends that will reach the 24' diameter of your silo.  Doubt you will have to even tack the upper suspension beam down to the top piece, gravity and the pressure you will apply with the screw dogs should keep it in place.  You push out, or pull in the end of your screws on the hanging length of pipe with the screw dogs [pulling will require tacking but on light wall not much] When you get opposite sides done, cut tacks and rotate the hanging screw dogs to another position.  Maybe 90 degrees at a time , maybe 45 and work your way around.  Wish I could see a picture and hope this description is clear enough if only to give you an idea to work on.  Main point you wouldn't have to lug a jack around up in the air cause it would be suspended.  Scaffolding probably required which might kabogin this idea [if not for any number of other reasons] but I think it could work.  Mebbe.
Parent - By CCash Date 03-16-2012 16:44 Edited 03-16-2012 16:57
This is a great challenge, how about two pieces of light I beam welded with a +/- 1” gap. Making a U shape ( open at one end)?  You could weld a series dogs to the I beam, apposing each other, or offset as needed, this could be slipped upside down over the tank wall and “ walked” around as needed ( it wouldn’t be hard to add some rollers to the top where it rests on the upper section of the tank wall to help move it around the joint). With dogs on both sides of the I beam and spaced along the length (top to bottom) this jig would work for both the horizontal and vertical welds the dogs would be pushing against each other , with the silo wall in between. There would be some flex of the beams, but depending on the tank wall thickness it shouldn’t be a big issue.  Cheers, Cash

Edit: After placing the jig, this could become mostly a one person operation. Tighten or loosen the outside bolts, pressing against the inside dogs, when the fit is acceptable, loosen the outside bolts, move over as needed, and start the fit-up again
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / line-up tool

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