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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Material Tracking Documentation
- - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-17-2012 17:36
Looking for suggestions or examples of material tracking/control documentation.  The handrail we will be building requires 100% melted and manufactured steel [1 1/2" & 3/4" pipe] for which we will recieve mill certs, presumably with heat numbers, chemistry and mechanicals.  We plan to segregate all this material in seperate storage and do a daily production sheet for what is removed from storage, what is done to it and it's disposition is at days end, ie. cut/prepped, drilled, coped, ready for fabrication, incorporated into fabrication ect.  However, obviously not every picket is going to have a traceable heat number after a length of material gets cut up.  What documentation do you use to certify/prove the unmarked steel is from the same lot/source?  I am wanting to include a written procedure in the QA/QC manual that demonstrates material control documentation.  This is a new regime for me and want to model my procedures on other established procedures.  Thank you for your reccomendations.
Parent - - By fschweighardt (***) Date 03-17-2012 19:51
did you get approval on the material, hows the weld test coming
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-17-2012 21:48
Fred-
The welding procedures are coming along.  Located a CWI to walk me through it.  My FCAW Qual. was lapsed [local juristiction WABO] so tested in FCAW unlimited Fri. results Mon 3/19 then do PQR on fillet using 4.20 detail B as suggested, inspector will do examination macros, write WPS and we should be good to go using new WPS and pre-qualified full pen with backing from D1.1.  When that's in place I will likely do another welder qual for GMAW, limited shop cert. 1G with backing per WABO and PQR for GMAW fillet.  Important distinction learned that neither local or AWS distinguishes between innershield and outershield.  FCAW is FCAW which made qualifying with outershield easier.  Your direction here was invaluable and acquiring AWS D1.1 as a source for information is also incredibly helpfull although assimilating it even in small chunks will be a long learning curve.

RE: Materials.  You may remember the A513 I had originally proposed.  That went away when the distributor brought their original price quote of A500 back to my attention.  The RFI requesting material change specification from A53 Grade B to A500 that you looked at has been submitted to contractor for owners approval and as of 3/16 has not been responded to.  I'm told it was probably kicked upstairs to Materials Dept. so we're still waiting.  Don't know what if any resistance can be anticipated but I've had enough anticipation this month to last me awhile.  If it comes to a dispute, I may reach out for further direction, but they have the certs. 100% melted and manufactured [I'm thinking that is the critical issue for them], chemistry and mechanicals that meet or exceed the A53 Grade B.  If rational minds don't prevail I'll have some more sleepless nights to anticipate.

Most of my "spare time" [between 4 AM and 7AM before the world begins] alloted to preparing shop drawings for the one job, getting the business re-formed as an LLC, money managment planning and adjusting schedules and priorities to fit other peoples.  Once the material issue is settled I'll sleep easier and be able to move that second project forward faster.  The next RFI will take up the 3/4" wall thickness falling below 1/8".  Have been councelled not to mention it by some, as it would likely go unnoticed but think your advice for the EOR approval is the best course of action. I'm hoping rational minds do prevail.  Just keep slugging away at it, head down one step at a time.  Didn't want to hound you unnecessaraly anymore untill I had good news to bring.  Maybe do that by weeks end.  Thanks for asking .
Parent - By fschweighardt (***) Date 03-19-2012 01:18
Some of the prequalified joints in Clause3 require gas for face, also gas is an essential variable for all eps as far as I know
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 03-17-2012 20:01
Is this documentation needed for an API audit or just your own info ? IF it is API, They have VERY strict guidlines on material tracking from Manufacturer to end user. The API OEM Manufacturers guide will wlak you through it
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-17-2012 22:03
Cactus-
As you've probably gleaned from the other posts in this thread it is not an API documentation issue just a whole bunch of WSDOT handrail. As a welder doing naturl gas compressor stations I never had to deal with it, the inspectors checkers would just come by the hooch once or twice a day and write the heat # on your finished pieces and record it on their weld maps.  As an owner/operator this is the first run with WSDOT and their Standard Specifications and Construction Manual does not site criteria for material tracking directly.  It may by reference so I will go back to those sources and research it some more.  The API reference you gave may provide a model to simulate, hopefully a less time consuming and tedious one.  I will look to see if I can locate it through the info you left. Thanks.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 03-17-2012 22:42 Edited 03-18-2012 10:42
We are doing repairs now that require tracking and MTR sheets on the Steel we use. I just have the Supplier include the MTR sheets with the delivery. It includes Heat #, Tensile, Yeild, etc.. The I hand it over to our Engineer and he writes his book from there.
Parent - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-18-2012 00:24
I can see where that would work; in this situation it looks as though I will have to generate/account for the tracking to hand into the EOR.  This may not be too big a deal, just want something in place that will satisfy contract requirements and the inspectors. Will look through D1.1 for anything related as this is the prevailing code and check DOT site for published criteria again, if either of those don't specify requirements or reference specific requirements I'm probably free to do it in an responsable manner I choose that will reliably demonstrate  the material used was correct and recorded.  Funny thing though, picked up a few pieces of 1 1/2" sched 40, Japanese origin and got material certs for it to use for fillet PQRs and some bending applications and while I was unloading it into the racks I didn't see a damn thing that looked like a heat# on the material.  Rolled it all around and zip.  I'm used to seeing material grade and heat number.  Maybe they're real feint nd I need to look again, but didn't see them the first time round.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 03-17-2012 21:41
I like to get the drafting dept to clean some drawings down to bare structure and use these as traceability maps. That makes it easy to simply write the heat number of each part on the drawing. You can use an un-cleaned drawing as well, it just gets a bit cluttered.
Each time you cut a part, transfer the heat number on to the part, with a paint pen, then as you fit up, write the heat numbers on the drawing.

Tim
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-17-2012 21:57
Tim-
Thanks for that, I was thinking something along the same lines although I was hoping to simplify it by doing some kind of heat #/color coating match chart so individual pickets for example wouldn't have to have individual notations.  What you describe would be very time consuming.  The inspector doing the fabricator approval may have some suggestions or the authority to approve a color scheme tracking documentation providing the material invoice quantities match as built quantities and remnants.  We're only building handrail for the state, non of this is critical work but does need to be documented.  Using a paint code matched to Heat # would be a lot quicker/easier and logicaly should have as much documentation valididty as actual paint stick stenciling I would think.  It would be nice to know if the approach I would prefer has been used before in the same noncritical application I am describing.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 03-17-2012 22:47
OurEngineer does the Color Matching system on his drawings. PM me if you want to talk to him and I will hook you up. He is a Phd. Structural Rig Designer. with API stamps
Parent - - By mcostello (**) Date 03-18-2012 02:38
If I read this right, it is for a handrail? How come so strict?
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-18-2012 02:50
mcostello-
It's a DOT project and their protocols can be rigid although the people I've dealt with have been fair and easy to work with so far, but we're still in submittal phase.  Material is 100% domestic melted and manufactured by contract spec and they will want to know at least that can be recorded.  This is my first time functioning as a fabricator for one of their projects and I hear a variety of opinions regarding their approach; mostly good but some not so good as well.  This is new territory for me and I need to prepare for possible requirements that are known by reference and familiar to the experienced but unfamiliar to me.  Something of a new level of professionalism for me  and I like to maintain a professional presentation.  Mebbe I'm overthinking it of course, been known to do that too.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 03-18-2012 03:12
Yup, color coding is quick. Don't forget a good MTR database to back it up.
It all depends on the level of traceability called out in the spec.
A callout for "Full material traceability with mapping" can be a real bear to deal with.

Tim
Parent - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-18-2012 19:07
Tim,
That's encouraging news, that you use color coding to cleaned shop drawings as a material tracking procedure.  I can't imagine an argument against it that would hold much water for our appliation.  MTRs will all be on file, material invoice verifying quantity, storage log, daily production log, remnant log and color match/heat# as builts should be more than enough.  There was no specific callout in the spec for full material traceability and mapping.  If it's in there by reference, which I don't believe is the case, then my plan for documenting/recording our material should be overkill.  Thanks for the feedback.
Parent - - By strother (***) Date 03-18-2012 03:08
I do some misc steel fab for GDOT .They require domestic steel . I have to submit a Steel Guarantee Letter every year. I just keep a file on each job with mill certs. and bill of lading for the steel I purchased for that job.
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-18-2012 19:20
Strother-
I think DOT is pretty much run on a state by state basis and will devise their own rules to suit themselves [within acceptable standards of course].  It sounds like your tracking methods would be the easiest means to handle it, and when I speak with the inspector who will be approving my material documentation procedure, I'm gonna run this by him and get his take on it before offering anything more comprehensive and time consuming.  Maybe your means and a daily production log with total material incorporated to compare to bill of lading for final tally will be enough.  Just need to meet the spec. on this, don't need to make extra work for myself.  Thanks all for the good ideas, feedback and voices of experience.  When this all gets set in place and given the green light over the next2-3 weeks, I'll still have a minimum of a month before doing any production maybe longer if Contractor doesn't meet their schedule.  Should be able to find time to write a report summarizing the many issues that have come up and how they were resolved both for the amusement of all and maybe for general guidline use to others contemplating this kind of work in the future.  Thanks again to everyone for helping out.
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 03-19-2012 18:11
Do you have kick boards as part of the handrail assy?  If so, then do as I do and hard stamp a corresponding 2 digit number on each piece to identify it with it's MTR.  This number corresponds to individual MTR.  This system has been acceptable to Oregon DOT and is acceptable for our NBIC "R" Stamp work.

QCRobert
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 03-19-2012 20:52
QC Robert.  Nice solution.  I'll see if it flies in WA.  Thanks
Parent - By qcrobert (***) Date 03-19-2012 21:27
It should work in WA in that we have sent similar fabricated handrail, platforms & grating there using the same system.

Grating was wire tagged using hard stamped plates.  Plateforms were hard stamped on the side and handrail was also hard stamped on the toe boards or on the attachment "flags".

An Identification Log showing 2 digit identifier corresponding with CMTRs (American steel) was placed with shipment to Tacoma, WA.

QCRobert
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Material Tracking Documentation

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