need some input from cold saw users

Date 04-04-2012 18:36

My little one man shop has been sllllllowly growing over the past 5 years or so....no intentions of making it full time, at least not until my daughter and her future sibling are in school, but I've been able to upgrade things a piece at a time, and this year has been off to a busy start with more work coming, so I am looking to upgrade my saw. Now don't laugh, but I've been using a grizzly portaband for all my stock cutting. STOP LAUGHING!! :yell:

I've made fixtures for it to be used as a vertical and a horizontal, so it really is a universal bandsaw, but it still sucks. Most of my work is with steel tube, mostly 2" and under, although I do a fair bit of aluminum work as well. 98% of what I cut is 3" and under round and square tube, angles, and round and flat bar. So I've been lusting after a cold saw. I know that there is a big difference in ferrous and non ferrous cold saws with the cutting speed, but I've heard that you can do occasional non ferrous cutting on a ferrous saw. Production speed is a low priority, as I'm rarely doing large numbers of repeat cuts, but accuracy in terms of length and squareness is a big priority, and I've heard this is where cold saws shine. The 3 phase requirement is a big turnoff, as a RPC would be necessary for my little shop, and I expect to need at least 4 blades for thin wall, thick wall, solids, and non ferrous. I've been looking at this bandsaw as it does what I need, but it's still a bandsaw. I've been looking at the Hyd-Mech P250, and I would punch my grandmother in the face to get one of these, but I'm not sure.
To sum it up....Can you do aluminum cutting on a ferrous cold saw?
Is the accuracy you get from the cut worth the expense?
In 1/8" x 2" square tube (A500) how fast will it cut?

By eekpod

Date 04-04-2012 19:16

We cut stainless, carbon, aluminum all on the same saw if required. We have to change the blade speed and pressure but other than that you can get down to a 1/16" pretty easily of accurancy.
We have a few older ones we will be auctioning off, if your intertested send me a personnel message.
Good luck

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 04-05-2012 02:43

"Is the accuracy you get from the cut worth the expense?"

My question is: Do You NEED that accuracy ?

In most fabricating work, probably not.

That little bandsaw looks pretty good if You need a portable saw. A dry cut carbide saw has similar capacity. Cactus posted about one He has that looks like a good one in a previous thread.

A good bandsaw cuts pretty fast and accurate. In small machines, Grizzly, Jet and others make saws with a swiveling head for miter work, this works better than a swivel vise, and allows for infeed and outfeed tables/rollers. The way to get good performance from a bandsaw is to use good bi-metal blades, like Lenox Diemaster II.

If You have the room, look for a good used larger horizontal bandsaw or a Marvel Vertical.

If You ask this question at forgemagic.com Ries Niemy and a few others will give You a wealth of information.

By Paladin (***)

Date 04-05-2012 12:37 Edited 04-05-2012 12:39

Devo,
Unless you just want to spend a lot more money I would think a dry cut carbide (chop saw) saw would be a very good choice.
Accuracy is easily less than 1/32. "Quality of a fit is directly proportional to the sharpness of the soapstone" Floyd once said.

Not too long ago there was a thread about dry cut saws. rcwelding started it I think.

It has been my experience that you need separate blades for steel, stainless, and aluminum. If more than a few cuts are made on aluminum with a steel blade, the aluminum tends to ball up in the teeth.
Forget about cutting stainless with a steel blade. I don't even like cutting stainless with a stainless blade.

I've never timed a cut but I would GUESS a 2 inch tube 1/8 wall could be cut in about 10 seconds.

I am still searching for the best dry cut blade for the money.

Floyd

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 04-05-2012 13:20 Edited 04-05-2012 13:40

Hey devo,
I have been using a 14" metal dry cut saw for over 15yrs for all the metal cutting I engage. The company I retired from had (2) Porter-Cable 14" D/C saws that had been used brutally daily without a single issue other than (1) broken return spring in the 11yrs I worked there. When I started, they were buying DeWalt blades at $110/ea. I told my boss about the 14" Freud Diablo Metal Demon metal blades I used that were $120 for (4) blades & would outlast the Dewalts. The Diable blade is a C7 tungsten-tipped, 72T blade. He got them per my suggestion & never looked back. We averaged 1600 cuts before sharpening was needed & the company had a superb gent who sharpened them & replaced any missing carbide teeth very reasonably. I bought the P-C 1410 saw for my shop back in 2000 right after I started with the company seeing how rugged they were. Best investment I ever made for cutting. I will emphasize that these are NOT for cutting SS. I cut all my HR/CR/alum./brass/bronze/copper with no issues. When cutting aluminum, I simply spray the blade with a shot of WD-40 & it cuts cleanly with no buildup on the carbide teeth. The P-C is now discontinued, although the Morse is identical with the nice, heavy vise that was the backbone of the P-C to get those nice clean, accurate cuts. Here's some pics of my setup & types of cutting I do in my shop & the link for the Morse & Freud blades. I also bought the HF saw blade sharpener for doing my own blades easily & quite economically & will do any blade from 6" to 16".

Denny

http://www.amazon.com/MK-Morse-CSM14MB-14-Inch-Dry-Cut/dp/B000IHXOKI/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/184-3364829-7926609

http://cripedistributingstore.com/saw-blades-1/freud-diablo-steel-demon-14-x-72t-ferrous-metal-blade-ro.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/120-volt-circular-saw-blade-sharpener-96687.html

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By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 04-05-2012 15:43

Denny

This is a nice reply. It is well documented with the pictures you have attached. The hot links certainly take the legwork and research out the picture for Devo. Well done!

By devo

Date 04-05-2012 16:17

Outstanding information sir! I've pondered these saws as well, but I was always concerned about the noise and the chips..How loud are they and how far do they fling chips?

By JLWelding (***)

Date 04-05-2012 17:31

I have a Makita 12 inch now for about 8 years and it gets used everyday, no problems so far. As far as loud, not real bad but I have seen people use ear plugs, my self I lost my hearing shooting years ago. Not smart but it is what it is. :lol:

By devo

Date 04-05-2012 18:56

this is too damn funny....a review of the Morse dry cut saw transrated from the Engrish.....
"If you're an electrician, a heating and air con skilled, a mechanical contractor, or a residential handyman this M.K. Morse Metal Devil dry cut noticed is all of the instrument you want to fast and safely reduce any machinable metallic. It is a should for every contractor. The Metal Devil is perfect for doing framing tasks or complex pipe becoming work. It cuts thru steel and different tough steels as simply as a standard circular saw blade cuts via delicate pine. These satans minimize faster, cut cooler, and lower longer than most factors you are used to seeing in industrial crops or at development website onlines."

Thank goodness, because my satan is minimizing way too slow...

By Paladin (***)

Date 04-07-2012 14:06

Yorkiepap,
I've tried the Diablo blade and I thought it had a bit of extra vibration and did not last a long as more expensive blades. Last one I bought was a MK Morse and it seems the best I've ever had. Lots of 2 in and 1.5in 14 ga tube and some C6 by 8.2 and still cutting. But it was three times as expensive as the Diablo. Cuts per dollar, who knows. But it sounds like you have studied it a bit. I will try the Diablo again. And off to HF for the sharpener.

Thanks for the WD 40 tip.

I have a Slugger and it looks identical to the Porter-Cable saw. The saw Cactus likes looks like it came from the same factory too. Only problem I've had is the slip nut (that allows the vise to adjust in and out before tightening) has worn out twice. I finally sawed a nut in half and welded in on around the vice screw. It limits the opening a bit and slows the adjustment but NEVER slips.

Devo,
Dry cut saws are very loud. I always wear earplug when working in my shop or in the field. And if anyone is in my shop when I am about to cut, I always offer them earplugs. What did you say?
Chips. They are contained pretty good but I rigged up a shield so any that may fly away are dropped close by. That helps clean up. A face shield is a great idea with these saws. Also, no one should be on the other side and to the right (of the operator) of the saw. Sometimes if not operated properly, a small cut off piece can fly away aggressively.

Floyd

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 04-08-2012 03:38

The Steel Max Cactus has is a well made saw. It is fairly reasonable in price for the quality of it. Tip on aluminum loading up on on your blades....just order some of this http://www.browntool.com/Default.aspx?tabid=255&txtSearch=boelube&List=1&SortField=ProductName%2cProductNumber&ProductID=1735 Just touch it to a warm blade and the aluminum will quit sticking to it. Course that means you need to pay attention when cleaning that aluminum. It is a funky wax. Works great when sanding aluminum as well.

Devo I would not think of laughing....but I will say this, a well made bandsaw pays for it self many many times over before it is done. It might be slower but you can cut stacks of material on the right one...and indexing heads are the WAY to go if you can swing it. I intend to buy a good cold saw myself though as the type of bandsaw I would like to have is pretty pricey.

By grizzzly (**)

Date 04-10-2012 02:52

I am not an electrician so I cant tell you all the ins and outs but you in most places you can get a less than 50hp 3phz (sometimes called wild leg) much cheaper than industrial 3phz. less than 50hp 3phz is more power than most small shops will use