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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Fuel for thought (pun intended).
- - By 522029 (***) Date 10-08-2012 22:47
Fuel for thought.
Attachment: Gaspricesthedaybaracktookoffice.eml (104k)
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-09-2012 01:52
But ever since that day, the oceans have been receding yada yada yada...
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-09-2012 13:03
522029

I really don't like Obama didn't vote for him and won't but passing misleading emails around will not make him go away only getting everyone you know to vote for someone else might.

Remember a few months before he took office what gas was?

Critics of the administration are quick to note that when Barack Obama took office, gasoline prices were $1.95 a gallon.

But they neglect to note the U.S. economy was in a virtual depression.

For purposes of comparison, when President George W. Bush took office in 2001, gasoline sold for an average of $1.55 a gallon.

In the summer of 2008, his last year in office, prices exceeded $4.25.

Just more fuel for thought

Marshall
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-09-2012 13:34
Marshall,
The speculators came out of the woodwork during the approach of Katrina and ran the prices up like never before. I have a new perspective about those speculators and their trading practices with regards to the effect it has on prices ever since.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 10-09-2012 23:25
Where was this $4.25 per gallon gasoline?

Griff
Parent - By texwelder (***) Date 10-10-2012 00:26
California
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-10-2012 11:00
522029

United States

From Consumer Reports

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/07/gas-prices-3.html

Average gas prices--July 28, 2008
Jul 28, 2008 6:51 PM
Gas prices decline across the board.

National retail fuel price averages

                                Price  Change from last week
Regular gasoline/gallon  $3.96  ↓ .11
Diesel fuel/gallon          $4.60  ↓ .12
Regional regular gasoline prices

                                 Price  Change from last week
East Coast                  $3.96  ↓ .08
  -New England          $4.00  ↓ .11
  -Central Atlantic  $4.00  ↓ .07
  -Lower Atlantic          $3.92  ↓ .08
Midwest                  $3.83  ↓ .15
Gulf Coast                  $3.86  ↓ .09
Rocky Mountain          $4.06  ↓ .05
West Coast                  $4.25  ↓ .12
  -California                  $4.32  ↓ .14
Source: Energy Information Administration, 7/28/08

Marshall
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 10-10-2012 11:33
Ok. California had $4.25 gasoline in 2008. New England was close. Hmmm.

Griff
Parent - By texwelder (***) Date 10-10-2012 00:25
Bad news that is not misleading down here in central Texas those are correct believe me I know my fuel bill went from 4 to 500 a month to 1000.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-10-2012 21:35
I remember that summer Marshall, your right. Prices did rise up to $4.00/gallon. But if I recall it was due to some unrest(I'm laughing now) in the middle east or some speculator or maybe it was because of the dirtbag madeoff?

The prices after Barry took office have been going up, up and away with no end in sight and he is not helping by shutting down practically any drilling we have, not to mention trying to kill our coal industry to boot.

Barry is trying to force the country into going green before we have the technology, proven technology.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-10-2012 22:46
If you want historical prices or even the local prices for your zip code http://www.gasbuddy.com is a great site.  The 8 year history shows nearly the same identical pattern for Bush as Obama.  And my view is that it is not so much an issue of how much oil comes out of the ground as how much we can push through our limited refineries.  Every time there is a refinery accident there is a price spike and the pattern proves it.  And when did Katrina happen under Bush?  Was that what caused the price to go to $4.15 near the end of his term?
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-10-2012 23:05
I think your right Obewan, Katrina might have been the reason now that you mention it.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 10-10-2012 22:37
Wacco,

I have not passed around "mis-leading emails" as you say.

$1.70's / $1.80's were the normal prices in Oklahoma and Texas region.

So, from $1.55 (your data) to $1.95 in eight years.  Hmm. Forty cents...

Griff
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-11-2012 10:13
Griff, we regularly see a 40 cent increase in a weekend these days. It bounces all around though, might drop a nickle during the day then up 20 cents overnight....you just never know what to expect at the pump these days.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 10-11-2012 11:26
Jwright650,

Your statement is correct.  However, what is your point???

Griff
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-11-2012 12:22
No point, just an observation.
Parent - By waccobird (****) Date 10-11-2012 11:38
522029

You Know Best Your intent

Excuse me

Marshall
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-09-2012 13:22
Common sense does not hold the President responsible for the actions of greedy commodity traders in the free market economy who are reacting to refinery accidents or explosions, terrorist threats, or all those who choose to drive an SUV over a more fuel efficient option.  And, in the US, it does not matter if more oil is pulled from the ground. We are short on refineries and the oil companies are hesitant to build more.  They are already at full capacity and over burdened.  More oil would not matter because we would still have a bottle neck that would result in a shortage of gas and diesel.  And, the current crisis was caused by refinery accidents and threats from Iran.

I read a statistic at an oil futures website that claimed that it only takes a 4% shortage in world supply to cause gas prices to quadruple and they backed the claim up with a case study that proved it from the Arab oil embargo back in the 1970's.  Now, here is the kicker!!!   The fuel waste from SUV's alone in the US is supposed to contribute to 4% of demand.  No offense intended for all those RIG weldors and business owners who have a legitimate need for a large vehicle, but most people do not an SUV and they let Wall Street and the Jonses dictate their driving choices rather than common sense.

And, I agree, the record under Bush was far worse and mostly due to the SUV craze that BTW way contributed to bankrupting Detroit as soon as consumer demands abruptly changed.  And, I contributed to the problem as a welding enginer.  I helped set up robotic welding systems that turned out 250,000 monster trucks a year.  I then had to do pennance by working on a Russian offshore oil project with Exxon and then a solar and wind energy laser welding systems project...LOL.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-09-2012 13:36
OBEWAN Sorry....I should have read your reply before commenting...I duplicated some of your thoughts.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-09-2012 13:46
No problem. It was an addition.  I forgot about Katrina.  And, let's not forget the Gulf rig accident.  But I still blame the speculators.  All it takes is a rumor to ruin the market due to the wild emotional over reactions.  I still love my new Honda.  I get 38 to 39 MPG on the highway on cruise at 70 MPH.  And, these days, one does not even have to feel guilty about buying a Honda. The new Civic will be entirely designed and built in Ohio!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-09-2012 14:00
They had the prices going through the roof before the storm even got here. All of that talk about running out of gas...what a mess.
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 10-09-2012 15:29
During WW II the civilians in German occupied countries beat the fuel shortage by renovating their cars & trucks with wood fired wood alcohol stills mounted on the fenders and dripping distillates into the carburetor. It got the populace from point A to B.
BTW what is the price of propane? Late 70's early '80s there was a huge market in retrofitting gasoline to propane fired vehicles. Welders were retrofitting truck, generator and OFC to operate from one fuel tank.
Y2K ~ quite a few welder/power generators were bought to run from a 1000 gallon propane pig and also used to heat the house.
BTW ~ just took a phone survey on the importance of wind energy and the importance of electing individuals to support continuing and increasing government subsidies for wind energy to decrease the dependency on foriegn oil. The surveyor didn't seem cognizant that if the wind doesn't blow or blows too hard that no electricity is produced. Which seems to be about 40~60% of the time. Oh well, we can always borrow more money from the Chinese and others who don't like the US.
Parent - By 65 Pipeliner (**) Date 10-09-2012 21:05
I do repair work on the nacelle trailers coming out of the Siemens plant in Hutchinson, Ks. A few weeks ago, I got the opportunity to visit with a gentleman who is very informed about the wind energy industry. He told me the hubs have a 20 year lifespan and the nacelles have a 30 year lifespan. Based on the highest efficiency (about 23% on land so far), it takes 29 years to pay a tower off. He went on to say the highest offshore efficiency of any wind farm was only about 28%. If it wasn't for subsidies, wind energy would be cost prohibitive to produce. Not interested in starting any fights, just thought I would pass on a little tidbit of info I picked up along the way.

Chris
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-10-2012 03:54
We have the coal, We have the technology to get it out of the ground. What We need is better clean burning technology.

Coal is a curse word to the greenies, so they wont even hear of spending some of the money alocated to alternative energy on better coal burning technology.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 10-09-2012 23:29
I had a Honda Civic station wagon in 1977.  Whoopee!  It got 40 mpg.  At that time it was not  fashionable or cool to the tree huggers.

Griff
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-10-2012 00:51
Well the Civic is a lot bigger now.  Mine is almost as big as an Accord.  And it is very comfortable.  It is more like a mid sized car.  The old ones are the ones shown in the tree hugger ads now.  And now I think the Prius is the official tree hugger car.  I can not justify the extra cost since the new technology only lasts about 7 years and the gas savings will then only be a break even when it is repaired.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-10-2012 04:01
My uncle had a Jetta wagon with the TDI engine and manual trans. That car got nearly as good mileage as the old Rabbit Diesel, and in the same range as a Prius with much more simple technology.

I don't like the Volkswagon company, they complicate things that could be simple, and charge way too much for parts and service. That TDI engine is a good one, if You are willing to own a Volkswagon.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-10-2012 03:50
I had a new Civic in 1981. I got a steady 41 MPG on My 46 mile each way commute, mostly lower speed driving.

It was a really basic little car that would be hard to sell in America today, but if I could get a new one like it, I would have to consider it.
Parent - - By Pickupman (***) Date 10-11-2012 12:10
I would just like to throw this in here in the discussion about clean coal. The parent company of the gas utility I work for owns a number of coal burning plants as well as coal mines. In listening to them discuss the wind energy vs coal and natural gas debate they have made an interesting point. They have several wind farm projects but say that even as they are putting wind generated power into the grid they have to have their coal or gas plants up and running but not generating so that they can come on line immediately when the wind stops or there is a peak in demand. So where is the savings and drop in emissions? As Dave said we need better clean burn technology not more gimmicks. And don't get me started on ethanol.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-11-2012 12:38
With a gas plant I think it is a non-issue.  They can be switched on as demand changes. At least that is how they do it in San Diego. Wind and solar are only meant to supplement the power supply.  They don't ever completely shut down a fossil fuel plant. They just stoke the fires a little slower.
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 10-11-2012 14:15
I would caution the use of natural gas for power generation. If it is used up to a point of diminishing supplies ~ the price to heat our homes is going to skyrocket. It has happened.
A power plant in I believe ND has developed a process to reduce the moisture content of lignite by 40% which means less lignite needs to be burned, less emissions.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-11-2012 14:25
I might tend to agree.  I read a very well researched book on energy futures and the documented statistic was that natural gas is tied with nuclear as the most expensive form of electricity.

But California uses it because it is so "clean".   Once when I was in San Diego they had just opened up a new huge natural gas shipping depot near Mexico. The supply was so scarce that they had to bring it in on large LPG supertankers from overseas to unload at this shipping supply depot.  Might only be good for the ship building industry.
Parent - By 65 Pipeliner (**) Date 10-11-2012 23:53
What's the name of the book, if you don't mind me asking.

Chris
Parent - By JeremyW83 (***) Date 10-12-2012 00:42
Obewan what was the title of the book?
Parent - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-12-2012 00:58
I am pretty sure it was "The End of Oil" by Paul Roberts but I have several oil books in my library.  It is several years old now.  I got it at Amazon.  If they have it in Kindle form you might get it cheap but they also have used books on Amazon.  Or try your local library.  I just got a free Kindle reader for my laptop last week at Amazon along with three free books.  Most of the Kindle books are around $3-$5.
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 10-12-2012 21:02
Obewan,

As we "type", the oil fields in N. Dakota are flaring off 30% of the natural gas they hit. This is due to no collection or storage capabilities.
What a waste.

Griff
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-12-2012 03:51
You brought up a valid point. Whatever percentage of power the solar & wind farms generate, the conventional plants have to be able to produce as well, as the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow.

We have a good sized nuke plant near by, but there is still an oil fueled gas turbine plant in sight of the cooling towers that comes on line to cover the varrying demand of the grid. The oil fueled turbines generate costly power, but can be throttled up or down instantly.
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Fuel for thought (pun intended).

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