AWS D1.1 & ASME SECT IX - Welder revalidation

By 46.00

Date 10-14-2012 05:21

yes! and no!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-14-2012 14:01

Good day Nalla,

Well, I think I agree with 46.00, but let's do it this way:

"Both codes does not call for NDE Report( RT / UT / MPI ) as a proof of competency to re-validate his qualification." I'm not real versant with ASME, but for D1, TRUE.

"As long as the fabricator can provide welders having 6 month continuty welding and weld visual inspection report as a proof is enough." It doesn't even REALLY REQUIRE a VT report. What is necessary is employer documentation of continual successful usage, within each six month period, of each process the welder is 'qualified/certified' in. Doesn't have to have any kind of CWI or other inspector validation. Just someone in a position of authority and oversight to confirm code compliance with usage of the process.

"Pls advise if it is mentioned NDE is must for renewal as per AWS D1.1 ( 4.1.3 ) & ASME SECT IX( QW-322 )?." No, it is not a must. It can be a good thing. It will lend added weight to the claim of successful usage and continued usage of the process in question. Hard to argue with a welders qualifications when he has outside inspectors and NDE Reports to confirm his abilities. But, that doesn't mean it can't be done if you have reasonable grounds for suspecting his abilities are not up to the task at hand. The codes allow you to challenge his quals and have him take another test. I don't have my D1.1 handy at the moment to look up 4.1.3, but there should not be any wording there which makes it mandatory for any NDE reports to validate continued usage/renewal. Which edition are we talking about? 2010?

My previous statements ring especially true for small shops, such as mine, or a person who works for himself. The more outside validation he collects the more competent he looks to inspectors and customers who don't know him. And, he is not simply rubberstamping his own re-validation papers. He has documentation of successful continued usage. And copies of UT and/or RT really help beyond just visuals of fillets. BUT, that visual of fillets is all that would be needed as he has USED the process.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By 803056

Date 10-14-2012 15:08

Both AWS and ASME codes state there must not be any lapse in the use of the welding process for which the welder is qualified in excess of 6-months. There is no requirement that the welding be in accordance with the applicable code or any specific welding code. There is no stated requirement that the welds deposited be subject to any specific test method, volumetric or otherwise.

In the United States the employer is solely responsible for the work produced by their employees. Should something go horribly wrong, the employer is the entity that is legally responsible, not the employee (unless the business is a sole proprietorship or partnership). With that in mind, how the employer wishes to demonstrate or maintain welder continuity is entirely the employer's decision. If the employer has a written quality control system in place, the method of maintaining welder continuity is typically described in their QC manual.

A common means of documenting welder continuity is to have a welding inspector or project manager cosign the welder qualification test record on the back side at least every 6-months (or less). This method works nicely for the independent welder as well as the welder that works on a series of work sites, i.e., field welding. Many shops that employ several welders approach the problem in a manner that is more systematic. The employer issues each welder a continuity log that is completed by the welder. The log lists the welder's name and employee or welder's identification. Typically the log has several columns listing the welding process used, the WPS used, the job number or project identification, perhaps a part number, and a place for the welder's initials and date. The log is collected monthly or quarterly, cosigned by the individual authorized to do so, and filed. Should a customer audit the company's activities or QC program the continuity logs makes verifying continuity a simple matter. Again, the method of maintaining welder continuity is not addressed by the welding code, the means of maintaining welder continuity is left to the employer.

The only opinion I would offer is that "time cards" unless they list what the welder was doing, is a weak means of establishing continuity.

Best regards - Al

By Nalla

Date 10-14-2012 21:25

Dear Brent & Al
We maintain performance record and revalidate his qualification by on the back page of original and continued with signing on his revalidation certificate. ( Signed by QA Engineer , Repecetive Department Head and QA/QC Manager ).

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-14-2012 23:07

So, have you run into some kind of problem with a customer's validation inspector who is 'attempting' to require more?

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Nalla

Date 10-15-2012 10:59

Dear Brent
That's right. Client auditor kee insisting NDE back-up necessary to ensure/verify competency. I told such provision not reqd neither in code or Client Spec. Then he requested for requlification of welders! Offcourse, i did ask for variation orders as it will lead to cost and schdule impact.
Thanks

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 10-15-2012 13:15

Sounds like your doing it right!@

Give him everything he wants as long as he understands that going beyond contract/code requirements is an expense he will need to bear himself. Have the variance included in any reporting/revisions

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-15-2012 15:01

I would most definitely put all of that in a formal 'Change Order'. Send it to a higher customer representative on the job, the engineer of record, and any other channels that will be affected. Let them know it will change the schedule as well as cost them for making NON-Code and NON-Contract requirements and stipulations.

Any such requests outside of the applicable code and/or contract documents is their financial responsibility. Refer them to the AISC 'Code of Standard Practice', which is quite possibly a referenced document in the Contract, Clause 8.1.3, 9.3, 9.4, & 9.5.3.

Then, take them to D1.1, Clause 1.4: (paraphrased) states that the engineer must state any changes to the code in the contract documents. Thus, since D1.1 makes no such requirement they have changed the code and the change is not in the contract. Any changes at this time will be at their expense and required to be completed only upon signing of a change order acknowledging the change in schedule, pricing, and contract requirements.

Just my two tin pennies worth...

Have a Great Day, Brent

By eekpod

Date 10-15-2012 19:31

I have done this type of thing in the past, and low and behold....it's goes away REAL fast.
Good luck.

By BIGTMAN83 Date 08-04-2017 22:00

welderbrent,

I'm hoping to learn more on the following statement:

"As long as the fabricator can provide welders having 6 month continuty welding and weld visual inspection report as a proof is enough." It doesn't even REALLY REQUIRE a VT report. What is necessary is employer documentation of continual successful usage, within each six month period, of each process the welder is 'qualified/certified' in. Doesn't have to have any kind of CWI or other inspector validation. Just someone in a position of authority and oversight to confirm code compliance with usage of the process.

In which exact section is the person in authority in reference to?

-BIGTMAN83