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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / It's over.
- - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-07-2012 11:41
I locked the "go vote" thread...it ran it's course, and as many of you know, I didn't like the outcome of the election, but it's over.

Let's not drag the forum down bickering over it.

Mitt Romney bowed out gracefully lastnight and gave a great speech aimed towards all Americans, let's follow his advice and pray for our country and work together to make America great again. Regardless of who was placed in charge of the ship, "we" are the one's who really make this country great, not the president.
Parent - By waccobird (****) Date 11-07-2012 11:58
John

Good sentiments.

Lets roll up our sleeves and press on to the future.

Marshall
Parent - - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-07-2012 13:24
Sooooooooo   even though this is the "off topic bar and grill"................discussions about politics are not really welcomed??
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-07-2012 14:10

>Sooooooooo   even though this is the "off topic bar and grill"................discussions about politics are not really welcomed??


That is not exactly what I said or meant. Civil discussions are welcome.

The bickering over politics "in here"(the forum) doesn't do any good other than to piss each other off(right or wrong?). Bickering between ourselves, in this forum, will not change anything in our government that effects our lives, that we disagree with(right or wrong?).

Seriously think about this....
What will bickering between ourselves accomplish?
I think the answer is "nothing"

Will Obama lose any sleep or change his views over a few guys argueing and getting upset on a welding forum?
I think the answer is "no, he won't".

I hope that I clarified the intent of this thread.
Parent - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-07-2012 14:17
Thanks for the reply John.  Talking in here is just like talking on the street.  It provokes thought (hopefully) and causes us to research and defend our notions accurately.  So in that regard I think it DOES do some good.
- - By texwelder (***) Date 11-07-2012 12:17 Edited 11-07-2012 12:24
Your right it is over just sit back and watch its over, and I will never stop bickering over politics could you imagine how bad this country would if we didn't bicker about the useless people in Washington and no matter what y'all say they are useless they all want to give to the worthless just to gain a vote and I am tired of working to support these people that don't want to work. I have nothing wrong with a man being poor but there is something wrong with a man staying poor.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-07-2012 13:43 Edited 11-07-2012 13:47
"Bickering" is not in and of itself bad.  It is how we direct our attitudes, sentiments, emotions, and then get up and get active and make sure your voice is heard.

Hopefully all of us did the best we could to express our positions and then get out and vote, plus helped to get out THE vote.  But, many of us here, we lost.

I think John expressed it well.  It won't do us any good to be like many movie stars and celebs the past few elections who claimed that if the conservatives won they would leave;  and then didn't anyway.  Would only make us look as foolish as them. 

But, on all sides are sincere people.  Some may be really, really wrong in the things they are sincere about, but they have drive.  Like it or not, we must work together.  Even if we are not listened to, again. 

Especially, PRAY for this country, for our leaders, and for the people.  'WE THE PEOPLE' can still be a force if the Good Lord is being petitioned to restore us.  Look at the examples from Scripture, but think about what is involved..."If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."  Are we humbled?  Are we truly praying?  Are we seeking His face?  Have we, are we, turned from our wicked ways?  Is God trying to get our attention as He did Israel? 

God uses leaders, He directs in our affairs, for our benefit.  Are we learning the lessons we are being provided with?

This political war need not be over even though this battle was lost.  Don't take this comment wrong.  We should not ever be 'at each others throats'.  But we dare not roll over and give up just because the voters went the way they did.  We have been here (well, close) before and probably will be again.  Political climates make swings so people can see what will happen under different leadership.  That is the consequences of our system. 

So, let's go forth, work, enjoy family, PRAY, and see how we can promote this great country back to prosperity.  Don't let the adversary beat you down.  If we do not go forth in strength, wisdom, and determination, with positive attitudes and spirits,.....THEN WE HAVE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY LOST. 

I don't intend to give up on this country just because of this election.  No matter which side you are on, we have all been on the losing side at one time or another.  And we are still here.  Working together.  Living in the same neighborhoods.  Shopping at the same stores.  Etc, etc. 

Have a Great Day,  I intend to,  Brent
Parent - - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-07-2012 13:45
Eloquent Brent, very well put.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-07-2012 14:02 Edited 11-07-2012 14:14
Sean,

I don't think John's intention is to censor political discussions.  It was to give people a moment to think and to reflect.  But, regardless of his intent, we should all reflect a little and be reasonable before jumping off the deep end. 

I think most here can easily see that I don't participate in many political or religious discussions on the forum.  It isn't the right venue for me, especially the way many of the discussions go.  I seldom find it worthwhile to say much, though I have put in my two tin pennies worth on occassion. 

I prefer to try to exhort and edify others.  It doesn't ALWAYS happen that way and there are times people need to hear the negative or opposing position to their stand.  But we should be able to do it and still walk away friends, knowing there are different levels of friendship and we don't have to be super close buddies.  Agreeing to disagree is a lost attitude these days.  Instead, both sides are totally at each others throats and fighting to the death is the accepted way of settling disagreements.

Even when positions are defended with great emotion we don't have to end as enemies.  Not in our welding discussions, not in our religious beliefs, and not in our politics. 

Anyway,  enough of my philosophy for today.  I'm sure I'll take some heat for my statements from someone.  It is still my opinion that we can all work together.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By texwelder (***) Date 11-07-2012 13:48
There is only one way to make this country great again STOP WELFARE it has gone to far now
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-07-2012 13:59
Don't get the wrong idea here guys...I didn't say roll-over. I'm just saying that here in the forum we need not rip each other apart over this, it's done, (the presidential race) at least for four more years. It doesn't do us or our forum any good to harp on it now(at least in here anyways).

So with that said, get out into your community and start attending the polls at the local levels....ie. Obama was a Community Organizer just a few years ago, and then a Senator, etc...so make your votes heard at the local level so individuals like that don't make it up the chain that far in the first place.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-07-2012 14:09
John,  I hope you know my comment about 'rolling over' was not directed to you and the action you took as a moderator nor to your statements about getting on with life and being active in this country's system.  I was addressing any attitude of 'well that's it, I give up.  They can just have this stupid country.  I'm leaving.  There must be somewhere better.'

Now is the time to start over for the next election while doing what we can with the leaders we ended up with.  Not, giving up and letting them win.  Even, if we get beaten many times.  Yes, we may see a trend and that our efforts to educate the masses our way have failed.  But, if we truly believe we are on the correct path we must keep up the effort and be the remnant that proclaims an alternative.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-07-2012 14:12
No Brent, I am with you. :cool:
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-07-2012 14:11
Tex,
I'm not saying you're wrong...read my reply above about my feelings on the bickering....(in here)
Parent - - By texwelder (***) Date 11-07-2012 14:45
No I understand I am just mad because I know how hard it's been the last four years and it is only gonna get worse. They are killing the self employeed in Washington
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 11-07-2012 22:24
Well boys, in disbelief as many others. Gonna keep trudging along as best as possible. I guess I will wait and see what evolves from the current promises. Four more years of the last four years. Reach across party lines as long as they do his bidding and what he wants and what he KNOWS is right.

I must apologize though as I cannot get behind or support something or someone I do not believe in or believe the words coming from his mouth. Any questions raised in defiance of Mr. Obama is met with a confidential, top secret stamp. Look at the mess in Libya and what is being called secured information. I do not trust Mr. Obama and when he talks his facial expressions seem to tell a different story at times, maybe it's just me. As a former Marine I was expected to respect the Commander in Chiefs orders and I did honorably. As a free willed human being I respect those who earn the respect I will give and many on here though I have never met you have earned my respect. He is not a God, he is a man, a man who has to prove he has the best interest of this country in his heart and painfully I have not seen this in my opinion. I do not see a President reaching across the isle, I see a man saying my way or the highway. I see a man giving away to the "entitled" laziness that is devouring this country, pandering to them while demonizing the rich(except the Hollywood rich).

In the next four years if he get's people working, the deficit starts to fall, we have an actual budget and he actually turns this country around I will apologize and admit I was wrong and he will have earned my respect, sadly though I fear we will have another four years of the sheeple being led blindly with "visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads", delusional heads. I keep hearing people talking about greedy corporations, greedy owners, greedy rich. I would like to apologize to all of those who feel I am greedy because I bought cheaper grinding discs, or plan my trips out where I can maximize my stops during the day in order to save on fuel costs or heaven forbid hire a guy who does the same work cheaper than a guy who thinks he is Gods gift. I apoligize that the key factor in starting this business was to earn a profit. Oddly enought that is what a business is meant to do. I cannot get over the people that have no clue how a business works, why things are done the way they are done. Is it greed that I want things for my children? Greed that drives me to do what I do? No, I think not. Greed is you sitting in front of your big screen all day, popping out babies or sipping booze collecting food stamps or welfare checks and wanting to take more from people like me who work hard everyday while you sit back with no intentions of getting a job.

Until then I will sit back and watch and continue to not build this business. Much more skeptical on the whole shop/employee thing however with the whole tax doomsday looming and the fiscal cliff I don't know if I want to jump into a shop/employee deal that is gonna bite me square in the backside with new taxes. I still have the drive however and most of my being is saying to heck with them, I will make this happen come haydes or high water, call it the self determination, the Marine, whatever I do not want to fail because I did not try.

Good luck to all you guys and gals out there. Think I'll refrain from the political conversations from now on.
Parent - - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-07-2012 22:49 Edited 11-08-2012 02:09
Shawn; please DON'T refrain!!  It is discussions like this that keep us sane!!  I may have stirred the pot too heavily on occasion; but it is intended to PROVOKE THOUGHT not offend.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-08-2012 00:58
"I may have stirred the pot too heavily on occasion; but it is intended to PROVOKE THOUGHT no offend." Oh really???

Then tell me and others why you decided to post that e-mail that did nothing but validate your hatred of races that are not white, and if you think or say that I don't know what I'm talking about, then why did you post this???

"All the Hispanics who voted for him did so because the majority of them are either here illegally or are on the government payroll as "entitled" persons who depend on the government [tax-payers] for their food, homes, cars, healthcare and "other" drugs, plus the fact that they support amnesty for their fellow mexicans who've made their way here illegally yet still managed to get drivers licenses, voting privileges."

I know you specifically did not say this but, you decided to post it nonetheless, and that's why I take a real offense to posting the E-mail and that paragraph regarding Hispanics!

This proves to me that you support such racist opinions otherwise you would not have posted it or you would have noted your rejection of what your friend was saying publicly for everyone to see here... So, do you now reject that paragraph's obvious ebellishment of what Hispanics are to these United States of America??? because if you are, then I misunderstood your intent and yet, unless you speak a totally new language, that paragraph was as clear as a pane of glass as to what you and your friend support which is clearly both Racism as well as Hatred and your friend is saying it in the e-mail as bluntly as anyone can!!! To me, that's totally unacceptable and should be deleted from this forum even if it is in the OTBG!!!

"No offend" huh??? - WRONG!!! "But it is intended to PROVOKE THOUGHT" eh???- YES YOU DID!!! You managed to provoke thoughts of: Why in the heck is this person posting something like that e-mail in here??? I hope you don't have anything more to add that's as repulsive, and knuckle headed as your previous post was SMT!!!

It's also quite obvious that you completely did not understand one iota what John Wright was intending to explain to you or anyone else in here, to refrain from using such inflammatory opinions even if they are not your own quotes with the exception of what was said in a news column and to avoid posting such hateful words, attacks towards a certain block of people unless of course, they're talking about the taliban or al queda  but you didn't understand what he meant??? I find that hard to believe if this truly is the case as to why you weren't thinking about who you might be offending by posting such bull Sh!t!!!

Brent did such a wonderful job of writing a good and noble message, why couldn't you do the same???

Deeply Offended,
Henry
Parent - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-08-2012 02:21
Funny how the race card gets flipped out so easily these days!!  I have no "hatred of races not white"; but I have a healthy dislike for enemies of our beloved and once great Republic.  The views expressed in the quoted email were not penned nor endorsed by me; they were shared to provoke thought as I stated previously.

Henry, you and I may never agree on this point; for I cannot understand WHY you support a man who has disdain for our military, governs by executive order, and is hostile toward business and entrepeneurs.  There is MUCH wrong with our nation that a president cannot fix.......but to choose as our leader a man who will jsut continue to do more harm..........I am just baffled by your defense and support for him.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 11-08-2012 02:27 Edited 11-08-2012 02:38
Henry, I am baffled by your defense of a President who will not salute OUR Flag for fear of hurting someone's feelings. Especially being prior military. You speak of the "Race Card" (you didn't specifically use those words, but it meant the same) I have been in Houston for the two weeks prior to the Elections. I could not tell you how many Bumper Stickers I saw that read "African - Americans for Obama". That is ok ? What if I put a sticker on my truck that said "White Boys for Romney" ? I wonder how often I would be buying new tires or paint jobs ? BTW I will bet that Obama doesn't have a Ham at Christmas Dinner !!
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-08-2012 04:02 Edited 11-08-2012 19:44
Man are you guys brainwashed with all those ads run in your areas!!! I'm not even gonna dispute this with you Cactus because I wasn't even talking to you so mind your business, and I'll mind mine too!!! Now to get back to SMT, I posted that you didn't write that paragraph in question but I also said that because you did post it, you're supporting that view because of the content and you knew that if posted, it would offend someone in here anyway or don't tell me that you're that naive!!!

C'mon and stop you're Bull already, and admit that you at least knew it was going to offend someone in here that's Hispanic, or else you would have not posted it in the first place!!! And if you think I'm using a race card here, then you're truly mistaken because my birth certificate which is from the City and State of New York says that I'm Caucasian, from two Hispanic parents from the Dominican Republic(Mom) and Cuba(Dad), both Caucasians as well, and legally immigrated into this country many years ago, and I consider myself both so, that race card bull sh!t doesn't work with me...
Yep,you can throw that crap down the sewer where it belongs!!!

So please do everybody a good looking out from now on and look and read the content of what you're posting before you do so... I'm not trying to censor you, I'm just asking for some consideration from all of you because you don't know how much this hurts me not only emotionally, but also physically as well... Every time I come here and read such posts which recently has increased more often than one would expect, I leave the forum physically hurt from those types of posts or threads!!!

You guys are better than this for crying out loud!!! Please stop acting like a bunch of ignorant people because I know you're better than that!!! Cactus, I have no beef with you so please just leave it alone okay??? May God bless all of you folks!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-08-2012 13:17
The "offending" post has been removed.  I did not realize that the skin was so thin in here.  Henry, you still have not offered ONE reason why you support BHO.  If there truly is merit to the man that you know about and noone else does; I am all ears.
Parent - By WeldinFool (**) Date 11-08-2012 19:28
I don't think it's being thin skinned as much as it is the fact that we expect a little professionalism on this forum, even in the off topic section. That racist rant you posted earlier was just a little over the line for a forum like this. There are plenty of places on the internet you can post and read crap like that, we don't need it here.
As for supporting President Obama, he is the President of our beloved United States of America, whether you like it or not, and deserves our support. We need to put our personal preferences aside and work together to keep this country great. Let's end the bickering!!
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-08-2012 13:28
How many people do we know that have actually left the United States because they married foreign nationals who, later became expats because it was nearly impossible for there spouses to gain citizenship... They had money, they had time, still they could not gain citizenship.

Immigration (legal) is a huge problem... and until this is addressed immigration (illegal) will continue the way it is currently going.

It should be easy to become an American (legally)  it is not...

However President Obama has made some progress in this area and this has been a benefit over about the last 18 months, probably more with immigrants from south of the U.S. boarder but I know Asians and Europeans who have also had reduced burdans as well.

While not a cheerleader for President Obama (I did not vote for the guy)... I have no problem saying nice things about the few good things I think he has done... It really doesn't hurt to be nice sometimes folks.

I belive you will see Republicans buying in on immigration reform with a more long term view the next 6 months... It will be touted as bypartisan but make no mistake, President Obama will be leading it.   And if it makes *legal* immigration easier, I'll be happy about it.
Parent - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-08-2012 13:54
Time to lighten things up!!   Here's a joke.....a JOKE people!!!!!

http://www.oilfieldtrash.com/thoughts_blog.php?id=62&showEntry=1
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-08-2012 14:08
Lawrence,

I agree, there are many parts of the system that could be made much easier and then we would not have near the problem on one hand.  BUT, there should always be limits to how many at a time you allow in and then others will still be determined to come without the benefits of proper paperwork.

In addition, it isn't as much the issue of numbers available or the easy of getting the paperwork.  Having a son who was in the Border Patrol until a car accident ruined one leg, they were shown the process, the numbers of available legal applications, etc.  IN their countries they are not given the information on how to come here legally.  That would shut down the transport business that makes millions of dollars for both the runners and the governments.  They are being exploited by their own people/government.  At the same time, they are being used, often, to bring drugs here.  More money for their 'brethren' and governments. 

We need to be working within their governments to educate the people of their available opportunities that, while it may take longer, will really be cheaper for them than paying others to bring them across.  At the least, before shipping them back to their own country when we do catch them, EDUCATE them to other opportunities and who to get in contact with to make it happen.  Stop paying to have their own people bring them over (and probably turn them in so that they can bring them a second and third time). 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 11-09-2012 04:45
I do not know any people first hand who have left the US because they could not get citizenship for a foreign spouse.

I do know 2 families who have moved to the US legally and gotten green cards for a foreign spouse & 2 kids [per family].

It did not take a lot of money, but it did take some time. In one case the minor kids got green cards before the father.

There may be other countries that allow for citizenship for any child born there, weather the parents are there legally or not.
I don't know of any. This is an old issue, I don't blame Obama for it, but feel it needs to be changed.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-08-2012 13:56
Shawn,

The people of this great country have made it great through the generations by doing their best regardless of the leadership in Washington.  I don't say this as a slam to either current party, and yet to both.  While I am one that feels that government only gets in the way of true progress unless it chooses to stay out of the way I think we can plainly see that it is the people of any country that comes along, stands up, and makes due under whatever circumstances are thrown at them.

We still have the greatest country in the world for allowing many of the freedoms we enjoy.  Yes, I believe we are losing them fast, but we still have more on the whole than anywhere else that I am aware of. 

Show our pride, conviction, determination, and spirit by doing what our forefathers did.  In the face of so many bad times-French & Indian War, Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, etc, etc; then, the Great Depression, the recession of the 80's, the almost recession at 2000, and now this Recession/Depression (maybe only time will tell for sure) we have always come back stronger and kept going despite the government and/or any other selfish interest that would try to knock America down. 

When we let these times take us to a position of apathy, carelessness, procrastination, despair, etc, that is when we have lost and they have won.  (not putting labels on 'we' and 'they', it's you and me that counts). 

I don't think it is right for government to intervene and keep any bank, business or other entity in business that obviously deserved to go out of business as any of us would have if we ran ours like they do and went so far in the hole. (Most of them obviously weren't that bad off or they wouldn't have come back so quickly).  BUT, we just keep doing our jobs and providing for our families. 

That is our main responsibility and obligation.  The government should be the last place people go to for help, not the first.  Why do we have so many government programs to do this?  Because the family and church fell down on the job and we let them.  To an extent, we even DEMANDED it of them.  And now we are complaining.  We must first get the family and the church back into the position of doing their jobs.  THEN we can ask government to back off. 

Are each of us doing our part?  We can always do a little more.  Though I believe many here are the type of people that are helping family, friends and neighbors who are hurting. 

In a way, I am rejoicing.  I see opportunities: for my church to show the community who we are, for my family to set an example to others, for this country to show what we are made of, and for some true leaders to shine forth to give all of us a better selection of political leaders next time around.  We had some good ones this time.  There are always SOME good ones.  But really, I don't think we have truly come to the place where we have looked for the RIGHT people to lead us.  Career politicians are not what we need.  We need the down in the trenches people.  But, they are still down in the trenches instead of offering their services to a larger community. 

Again, just my two tin pennies worth.  Thanks for the compliment Henry.  Just my personal thoughts and perspective on my personal obligations to the society in which I live.  We all have very little choice in our place of birth.  Contrary to many lines of thought, we can choose where we continue to live and offer our allegiance.  And I choose to remain here and do my best under any and all circumstances.  While his reference is generally in line with our spiritual lives, my pastor often says, 'It's not about me, you, or us, it's about His Glory'.  "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (KJV)  AND, " Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (KJV)

I could go on, but I think my point is made.  Those are my beliefs and why I think I can and should look at this as a positive opportunity and not a time to give in.  I don't have to be in total support of everything the President or other leaders do.  But I must do those things I am responsible to do.  Right or wrong, agree or disagree, this country did vote him in for a second term.  With the rest of the Congress that was elected, it will be a battle for both parties.  Prayerfully, hopefully, for the best interest of this country, there will be places where they can come together and DO GOOD.  I see the lower number of laws and regulations being passed as a good thing.  There are way too many on the books already.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
- - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-08-2012 16:03
rant/
I don't bite on the race baiting. I spent a good portion of my life on an Cherokee Reservation, attending school, going to church, and not a week went by without a fight.
Being from half German Blood, and Half Cherokee blood (eastern), my eyes and hair would pass for aryan until someone started paying attention to my bone structure and body build. Non of the whites, nor none of the full blood, nor even the blacks would accept children like me. The few of us there that were mixed spent their days watching over their shoulders waiting for the inevitable weekly assaults. The worst ones were the ignorant adults, non of which were tolorant of 'half breeds'.

At no time in my history have I ever denied my heritage, nor will there ever be such a time.

However, at no time will I ever accept special priviledge for it either. I consider affirmative action, race centrist groups (NAACP, La Raza, NARF, KKK, AACRE etc), all as the epitome of racism. I consider Racist the terms African American, Asian American, Native American, and all other divisive nomenclature of that nature.

I do not accept that I need help from the government to get a job. I do not accept that I need to be in one group or another to be protected. I do not accept that I need to be designated as some special kind of American. I especially do not accept that I am any more, or any less, than any other 'AMERICAN'. I neither need nor want someone to hold my hand, nor a whipping post to blame for when I F*** up, nor a special stool to stand on to think I am better than someone else.

I do not get better by accepting being less, nor by playing the race card until it's worn and tattered.

I am sick of the race crap from all sides. How about we all roll up our sleeves as 'AMERICANS', and stop with the race crap every corner we turn.

/rant
Parent - By waccobird (****) Date 11-08-2012 16:06
Gerald

Nice Rant

Marshall
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-08-2012 18:13
AMEN!!  You should 'Rant' more often.  Very well said.

I have said it before, though seldom here, in my view (emphasis on 'my view') there is only one race= THE HUMAN RACE.  And every one of us is an EQUAL member.  It is more the fault of the government with all their laws and organizations that have spun off because of those laws that causes 'Racial Conflicts'. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-08-2012 19:40 Edited 11-08-2012 19:59
I agree Gerald,

I don't like having a label over my head also...  And like you too, I will not accept it to be used in here as an identification word of thought that all Hispanics are Illegal lazy no-good blah, blah, blah, because that's not true, and if the label, which I know Hispanics didn't choose to represent themselves, continues to be used for that purpose in here, I will continue to object to it's use especially in here...

Like you, I'm tired of using all of these labels which divide us as Americans, for whatever purpose that hateful people choose to do in this country also!!!

And I'll offer this example which in my humble opinion says it all:

When I was in the US Navy's Silent Service as a "Bubble head" moving in a submarine underwater @ close to top speed somewhere in the Pacific Ocean, we had a major all hands emergency that required the Captain of the ship to order a slowdown to a complete stop... During that emergency none of us were Black, or White, or Hispanic, or Filipino, or whatever!!! WE WERE AMERICANS WORKING TOGETHER TO SAVE THE SHIP!!! There wasn't any labeling going on, or racism whatsoever because we were all in the same ship working together to save the ship and ourselves!!! We all pulled together that day, and we all successfully managed to contribute in one way or another to save the ship!!! We lost a few good men because of what happened but we never forgot how we worked together to save ourselves as a crew by saving our ship!

During the horrible tragedy that was 911, people from all and I mean ALL walks of life came together as AMERICANS to help each other out, to save the injured no matter what racial composition, no matter what country of origin, no matter WHAT PERIOD!!! AMERICANS are truly at their LEVEL BEST when they throw away such divisivness and instead, work together as AMERICANS SHOULD EVERYDAY!!!

It shouldn't take a tragedy that touches everyone to work together, to respect each other as decent human beings no matter the color of their skin. no matter their heritage, and no matter where they're from, to validate us as AMERICANS FIRST! So PLEASE LET'S STOP THIS GARBAGE BECAUSE IT IS DIVIDING ALL OF US in here.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-08-2012 20:55
I have taken my trip to the proverbial woodshed with grace.  Admonishment noted; but political correctness be damned.  NOW gentlemen: do NOT forget that our nation was BIRTHED in controversy and contention.  This notion that we MUST be all of one mind is nonsense.  Challenge, conversation, and controversy are NOT bad things.......and let us also NEVER forget that the English regime that our forfathers separated from was less intrusive and oppressive than our current federal government is.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-08-2012 21:52 Edited 11-08-2012 21:55
Would you please stop it already!!! Just drop it man okay???

I've got an idea... Start a new thread because this one has already run it's course.

Henry
Parent - - By SMTatham (**) Date 11-08-2012 22:06
Henry; the above post was not directed AT you, so I apologize if you took it that way.  It was to the posters at large.  YOU however, my good man..........get WOUND tighter than Dick's hatband over very mild discussions.  I am not being disrespectful; just trying to have discourse.   Some people can discuss controverial topics without getting all cranked up.....and can actually open their minds to broader ideas.  I try to do that as I read your posts.  I would hope you can do the same.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 11-09-2012 01:55
"And now we are complaining.  We must first get the family and the church back into the position of doing their jobs.  THEN we can ask government to back off. "

Brent   Sir your IQ and personal character is far greater then I probably ever gave you credit for.  You have made some extremely to the core problem statements...stuff it takes intelligence and balls to say.  You are very correct from where I am sitting, I commend you for saying it so well.  CHEERS!

As far as the comments about Hispanics...particularly those from Mexico.  I have had the privileged to meet many on the job or living in my neighborhood who work hard (very hard..they do not quit), follow the rules, obey the laws and still keep there own culture about them.  Some are here legally..I know a few who are not.  If it was up to me and the ones I know...I would grant them citizenship right now today based simply on there character.   I REALLY VERY SERIOUSLY doubt the large percentage of Hispanic vote Obama received was based on entitlement program access for illegals or legals....I reckon it had more to do with the stance the republicans present on immigration period.   At the same time I abhor those who hire illegals to exploit cheap labor, and if your a lawbreaker your a lawbreaker...do what you can do to fix it.  Others have commented on the pathetic broken immigration system we have and I agree.  This country was built by diversity and mixing so many different cultures together...somehow we found a way to work together despite great differences and build a country that literally is the envy of the entire globe.   I would rather live amongst hard working individuals struggling for opportunity to better themselves then some of the spoiled entitlement loving "the world owes me something because I was born crowd"....make no mistake there is a LARGE section of the population that is perfectly content to sit in filth of its own making and raises hell because you have not come in to clean it up for them quickly enough. Time to work on our own backyard folks...maybe citizenship is not a right but a privilege with an obligation to do what you know how to do and can do for those around you.

When there is a consensus in this country to give no quarter to the latter I am speaking about and it is acted upon in a deliberate way....well I can tell you that will bring a great many people willingly to the bargaining table.
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 11-09-2012 01:55
Once again, This 32 second video says it all

http://www.youtube.com/embed/agUx79yG1Lo?rel=0

I did not make this video. I just pass it along because I think it is worthy of veiwing.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-09-2012 13:38
Henry,

There are good people in every nationality and bad people in every nationality.  It always ends up coming down to attitude and character.  But even those often change when people are thrown into catastrophe and start helping one another as well as needing help from others.  At that point we don't care what color, language, culture, religion, sex, etc our much needed assistance comes from.  And most, stop holding grudges against all others even when they are the ones giving the help.  We tend to recognize need and human compassion when crisis arises.

I greatly appreciate your sentiments and stand.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-09-2012 20:02
Thank you Brent!

I really appreciate the fact that you understand where I'm coming from

And your own remarks are also well spoken.

Respectfully,
Henry
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / It's over.

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