I took over as the CWI at a fabrication facililty on a tight budget. But, to certify welders, I need a band saw that will cut through 3/8" groove welds with backing strips and 1/2" steel for fillet welds. I need info such as size, HP, wet or dry, etc. My spending limit is around $2500. If I don't get something soon, I'll be out there with a hacksaw. Help!
If you go there to purchase, my recommendation is to leave the Northern brand of saw at the store and purchase the Jet. You'll be far ahead in just saw blades over the course of just one year. I have one of the Northern band saws and it will eat you out of house and home chewing up saw blades.
Out of curiosity, whats causing your northern house brand saw to "chew" blades up other then it is probably built in china? Bad rollers, crappy guides, wobbly drive wheels..?? I know another fellow with one and he has had no issues. Personally I would like to find a good swivel head that did not require mortgage of the soul.
Btw; do you make up your own blades, buy blades in rolls?
The rollers and guides are sloppy. Never have been able to get them squared up where they run true....sorry castings and machining I suppose. The first blade lasted pretty good and the more use the saw sees, the more blades it chews up...now it's hard to get the blade to run on the pressure roller without eventually slipping off to one side and ruins a perfectly good blade. Been using ready made blades off the shelf from Northern. I don't know who makes them up for them.
Wow, I must be doing something wrong. I bought my Northern tool saw over a year ago and broke my original blade not to long ago. Bought some blades from a place in Alabama and been using that one since.
P.S. Mine has lube capabilities but I've never used the lubricant, just dry cut everything.
I think the main problem is the saw isn't heavy enough for what I'm using it for. I need a heavier machine with a little better quality built in. I'd love to have this little saw that i use here at work for cutting coupons on, it does a great job and it's older than I am. It's a Vertical Bandsaw, 1958 Marvel No. 8 and it has auto feed and a cutting fluid pump. I love that lil saw...if the company ever sells it to me, I'd want to change out the motor because it is 3-phase, and I don't have a phase-converter at home.
Couldn't agree more - Ellis is definitely the way to go! we use that exact saw - I'd rather find a good used Ellis, than a new unit from Northern, or even Jet. We use it dry, with a stick lube. It'll cut all day, every day.
Can I get away with the 3/4 HP motor? I'd rather have the 1 HP, but I have to try and sell this product to management. So, cost is an issue.
Are we to understand that this fabrication shop has no band saw? What do they fabricate that does not involve cutting metal?
Provide your management with a cost analysis comparing sending test coupons to a lab for evaluation versus cutting and bending them in-house. If the numbers do not justify doing the work in-house, send them out.
The cost advantage does not necessarily go to in-house testing. I had a tensile testing machine so I could do tensile testing in-house, but it is faster and less expensive to send them out to be tested. Comparing what I can charge for consulting versus machining and testing a coupon, it makes sense to send them out.
When you analyze the cost of testing welders in-house you have to consider that it is pulling you away from functions that could be more important to your employer. If you have an employee cut the samples so you can do something more productive, you are taking him away from his production activities that produce cash flow for your employer. In essence, you are paying his wages to do something that isn't producing positive cash flow, so you are losing 1-hour of production for every hour spent cutting test coupons. Is it the best use of your employer's limited resources?
You have to consider the capital cost of the testing equipment, i.e., saw, bending machines, and floor space. You have to consider the cost of testing in terms of labor and overhead and lost profits when employees are taken off the production line. After all they could be doing something else that earns money for the company. A cost analysis should be pretty easy to do and it will show your employer whether it is a worthwhile endeavor to test in-house.
Best regards - Al
This company (which will remain anonymous) has been around for several years at this facility. They actually have 5 large plants across the US (incl. this one) and one in China. Our customers (all in the transportation industry) are well known and major players. Unfortunately, the last CWI was given no oversight and was allowed to do (or not do) whatever he chose. Had our customers ever audited us, I don't know that our plant would still be open. He had no paperwork to prove our welders or our WPSs were certified. So, with a current work force of nearly 50 welders and over 20 WPSs, I have my work cut out for me. Despite the fact that this company is a multi-million dollar player in the market, our poor quality issues (not just welding - plant-wide) have caused us a lot of scrutiny and headquarters is watching every penny spent. We have one other band saw in the machine shop and it's as overworked as I am. I need my own. But, I can't start demanding a lot of money just to make my job easier. I have to stumble several times before they get the point that I need equipment. They're finally starting to get the point. I've been using a band saw that belongs in a weekender's garage.
So... That's the reason for my original question.
jstepp,
I hope you can get that company turned around, just remember something that a mentor here(CHGuilford) once told me..."it takes a lot of ocean to get a oceanliner turned all the way around so choose your battles wisely and keep after it."
best wishes
By Tommyjoking 
Date 01-30-2013 00:28
Edited 01-30-2013 03:23
WOW,
That sounds like a familiar story to me...a major player that could not fix it's discrepancies or keep up with the world class market...too little too late. Innovation with flex-able capabilities on a competitive margin or DIE. Nevertheless if you want to spend you money well on a tight budget...I agree that Elllis is a good brand, lots of OLD little saws out there. I will also tell you not to look at 3/4 hp saws in general...1-1.5hp in general for your needs. You should be able to get a decent saw for around 1-1.4k that will last for what your doing. Stay clear of grizzly and other bargain import.
your post brought up some bad memories....
BTW AL with your suggestions he can also under the correct/wrong circumstances write himself out of a job as well! Outside testing alone would probably end up less then his salary if he is only qualifying welders and doing random production tests.
Watch for the saw's jaw size and if you look at horizontal saws, be sure the saw will swing through the arc and still be able to saw your coupon all the way without bottoming out.
This is a good discussion for me to follow. I am in the process of setting up a website, and I have been considering using Northern Tools as one of the advertisers. But, I don't want to promote any junk items. Only the best stuff will be my goal.
OBEWAN,
My opinion of Northern Tools brand is that they have good stuff for a weekend warrior(better quality than Harbor Frieght), for serious, everyday use stick with name brand equipment.
By welderbrent 
Date 01-30-2013 17:29
Edited 01-30-2013 17:33
Some good discussion and suggestions here.
I will stick with my WellSaw until it wears out. Have done occassional repairs myself, easy to work on and easy to get parts for from Wellsaw. Only thing I would change is to get a model with the rotating head instead of the rotating clamp. Clamps that rotate are a joke. The pressure vectors are all wrong when they are not at a 90° cut setting.
I am going to have to call the shop to get the name, but I get my blades out of an outfit in WA. They have out performed any one else bar none.
Will include a pic of our saw, just nice and plain but has worked well for over 20 years with much hard use.
Have a Great Day, Brent
Tommy;
I assume the contractor hired our friend for more than just testing welders. As the CWI in a large shop, just performing normal QC issues can be very time consuming. Welder qualification may be a distraction in the overall scheme of QC functions. Testing in-house can be false economy if it takes the CWI away from day to day responsibilities and interferes with timely delivery of the product.
Production facilities are about production. Most companies run lean, meaning there are no extra personnel to take up the slack when someone is not on the production line. Taking a worker off the production line to prepare test plates for welding and bending can be detrimental to overall production. Standard accounting practices penalizes production when the work being performed does not result in deliverable product, i.e., non-productive work.
When the CWI's QC responsibilities consume his full attention, welder qualification by in-house personnel can be both disruptive and nonproductive. Bringing in an outside agency, i.e., temporarily adding additional personnel makes economic sense because there is less disruption in production and the in-house CWI can tend to normal QC needs of production.
The involvement of a third party testing agency also removes the biases that may be real or perceived. Using a third party to witness the performance tests and to perform evaluations can prevent problems in the working relationship between the in-house QC and the production, especially if the pass/fail rate is such that the welders fail in high proportions. Such situations can poison the relationship between production and QC. That can be a real problem.
There is so much more to the CWI's scope of work than simply qualifying welders. If the only reason the contractor hired this CWI is to qualify welders, his job will be short lived once the welder qualification is complete. Welder performance qualification is not an on-going operation for most contractor/fabricators/manufacturers. Most welding standards do not require periodic requalification if there is a means of maintaining welder continuity. Once the welder is qualified for the range of work being performed, no additional testing is required.
It sounds like that this company is lean and mean if the only saw is in the maintenance department. If the existing saw is being used to the extent that cutting test plates would interrupt process flow through that department, it infers it is being properly and fully utilized.
A separate saw in the QC department may not be fully utilized in the long run for reasons mentioned previously. That is not a good investment for the contractor if it is only utilized for short durations and sits idle much of the time. Life in a production facility is not the same as in a job shop. Large shops have accounting requirements that are largely ignored in job shop environments.
An alternate approach may be to purchase a better saw for the maintenance department. The better saw may prove to be more economical and more versatile. The new saw could be available to both maintenance personnel and QC thereby justifying the cost of a better quality saw. Placing the saw in the maintenance department would not require additional floor space (a premium in most facilities) and they could maintain the saw. It would be better utilized because it would be used more frequently,i.e., less idle time. That would be more easily justified and appreciated by the bean counters.
I prefer a Marvel vertical band saw. They cut quickly, accurately, and are very reliable. There are other brands that are similar, but many of the facilities I work with have Marvel saws that have been in service for years and still function very well. Compared to the other brands I see in use, the Marvel is the saw of choice.
Best regards - Al
