OH boy, here we go.....

Date 06-01-2013 13:26

Well, I was out in town the other day and driving around a little area and saw a "For Lease" sign. Curious I wrote down the number. Been busy as a one leg man in a butt whooping contest and have leads to do more but have run out of me, out of shop and well, did I say out of me? Need a place where I can hire a guy, have a toilet, etc., etc, in a bad way.

Called this guy about the shop. Garage door in, Garage door out. Good size doors, 3000 sq.ft, open shop. No office, rooms, nothing, just a toilet way in the back corner. Great location, machine shop across the street, wood working shop two doors down, a failed "Off Road" place next door, industrial park of sorts. Equipment rental next street, TSC end of street, Fastenal one street over. Think I found a gold mine! $800/month!!

Questions though for you 'perienced folks. I'm going to look at it today but what about build outs? I mean, it needs an office and if I hire a guy I know I need to have a "break room", whether they use it or not is another thing but I know I need one. Also electrical outlets? I guess the questions are, does the owner of the building put in the outlets/office type stuff? Do I build it and when/if I leave I'm just out that expense?

Not very familiar with the hole commercial lease thing. I'm guessing that the office/break room would be on me as would be the outlets I need for work areas. He said it is set up for three phase so that is good. All my current equipment won't even be a blip in this place.

Any tips you guys can offer on the whole lease thing? I want to do it by month for now and have some money stashed for the first couple months to pay ahead and want to keep ahead of this payment. Any help as always is much appreciated!

Jeez, feel like I'm standing at the edge of a cliff, one leg stretched out over the edge and getting ready to put my weight on it.....I'd rather be swinging from a tower, hanging from a bluff.....jumping out of an airplane! At least the possibilities are limited, you live or you fall and die! This step is like a road map of possibilities!! Yikes!!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 06-01-2013 18:04

Shawn,

What an opportunity!! But, it can break you just as easily as it can make you. Cautions are indeed the word here and seeking wise counsel is a good first step.

Where to start. I rented, bought (same building), sold and had to move last year so am renting again for the past year. Also rented out part of the building that we bought to make part of the payment.

Unless you negogiate the deal right and sign a multi-year lease you will more than likely have any modifications coming out of your own pocket. We spent about $12-15,000 to get the electric as we needed it and some other things fixed for our style of business to move into the one we are currently in. As our rent was half of what we had been paying ourselves when we owned our own building it came out even after the one year (from $2000 down to $1000/mo). We have an office with two rooms, a break room, over the office storage area, bath room 3000 sq ft, a fenced yard and good location (between this building and the one next door we have been here for 35 years).

We did the same when we started out in the building next door. Spent quite a bit of money to get things set up when we bought the shop and changed things around.

It is never an easy decision. And there are NO guarantees. Especially in this current economy. It looks to be improving at present, but who really knows for sure. All of life is a gamble.

For me, I do a lot of praying, discussing things with my wife and kids, one of which still works with me, and then head out in whichever direction we feel the Lord is leading. I've never been let down yet. Remembering that God leads differently at different times and sometimes has to hit us hard to get our attention. And it is no guarantee that you won't have struggles.

None of us can truly answer FOR you. But, my counsel is to go for it. I think you are ready. You will experience some problems trying to work both field and have a shop. One way or the other you can't be in both places at all times. You will need someone you can trust to do one or the other when you can't be there. For me, that was my oldest son. It has worked well for over 15 years. But, trying to find someone to replace him as he is now a CWI and we are getting him work out away from the shop has been almost impossible. We are making more changes. Going to move the shop to our home property of ten acres and only keep the customers and work that we really like. Inspections is our total direction.

I say that to illustrate the problem you will face will employees. Not easy finding people with your work ethic, craftsmanship, and customer relations. Believe me, even my sons have let me down at times and I have to go rebuild relationships and reputation.

Anything else...just ask.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Dualie

Date 06-01-2013 21:28

they are called tennent improvements. I would forgo the break room You can have a table and some chairs, A single small room for an office is really all you need. somewhere to put a file cabinet, desk and computer, and maybe a drafting table. Thats it.

Wiring is a major expense so i would make sure that all the provisions are there for immediate usage and not having to drop 12K in the first 3 months to get it wired.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 06-02-2013 00:06

I agree...a small quickly built office space out of studs and blandex with a cheap 110 window ac crammed in the wall somewhere...maybe a window to keep an eye on the crew. I have ate lunch/breaks at the same work table I was building things on in many a shop...no biggie. Give em an old fridge with an icemaker and call it done. 220 wire is high as it has ever been so.... and you will need at least one if not two good 220v extension cables ($$$ grrrrr) to reach outside with. Of course there is also that commercial property liability insurance thing, dang I am sorry but it bears mentioning. I know your good at projecting what your getting into so I pretty sure you will have a good handle on it. I will keep an eye out for forklift deals if ya get it.

Brent made a great point on having "that Guy" that you can trust and count on while the rooster is out of the henhouse. Nothing would ever get done while my friend is away unless his wife was there to crack the whip.

YOU GO SHAWN!!

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 06-02-2013 01:23

Got a 25 ft and a 20 ft #8 extension cord for the 220 side already. Not to bad, think I spent around $150 for both, wire, connectors, built them myself.

Well, met with the guy, it's an as is type of joint but place is friggin' huge!! Ok, 3000 sq.ft to some of you guys is probably your master bathroom, the "shop" I've been in the last 5 years, although feels quite comfortable now is just a pain, small.....a pain. Told my wife I get everything set up in there, grinding work area, cutting, layout, welding etc., I'll be walking half the day. Think I'll take my bike there to get from one end to the other! It feels that big to me!

I told the owner today that I will be going down to find out what the deposit is on the electric and get it turned on Monday then stopping by the bank and his office to make the first couple months payments. Then I need a couple 220 outlets dropped in the place. Thinking I might find the breaker box and run the shiz myself. I'll give my electrician sister a call and get the skinny on code, wiring and so forth as she did that for about 7-8 years.

Think my wife will be happy though! She'll once again be able to park her car in the garage! Yes, I said garage! Told her I'm emptying that s.o.b! Going to move my mustang back in, parking for the wife and THANK GOD NO MORE TRIPPING OVER GARDEN TOOLS IN MY NEW REAL SHOP!!! Kids toys, basketballs or other junk!

Towmotor, yep, definitely on my list of "needs". Right now, get in that shop, get the ranger fired up again and see if I can't hire a guy to put out on some of these buildings they want me to weld on and then get my butt back out under the bridge..dang, then the shop will be empty!!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 06-02-2013 03:31

Overall the guys are correct, you don't need a big office nor a breakroom. Mine were natural leftovers from rooms with other usage. And, I had 10 employees plus family to provide for. I referenced them only to show how money can get spent in a hurry when setting up a 'nice' shop and office. You already know about all the other items that can come along: computer, phones, fax, code books, double the equipment to supply shop and field, renters insurance, gen liability, business licenses, corporation papers, registrar of contractors, certification renewals, cell phone, PPE for employees, and so much more.

But, your wife got her garage back.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 06-02-2013 20:42

My wife keeps saying, "more expense" and I tell her I've hit the wall here. Can't do more $$$$ year because of my limitations set by my current location! Sooooo, called the guy today, said I'm turning the power on tomorrow and will be by his office to give him the first two months rent. Then, I guess I can kiss my home life goodbye, set up a spare bed or couch at the shop and plan on living in it for awhile!

I've got plans in my head for the "nice" shop but like you said and what I'm thinking right now, some outlets dropped for 220, my steel rack and all of my gear over there and start cranking out some goods and bringing in some greens. Told the property owner everything else will fall into place as I have funds and time. I'm excited. I'm excited that the next time I need to work on my truck, car, or whatever and it's raining I don't have to worry about not being able to work because my current "shop" is to small to do bigger stuff.

I'm ready for this that's for sure! My wife is excited because, A- she gets to park inside again for the first time in 10 years and B- her yard won't look like a.....well, like a welding and fabrication shop!! LOL!

By texwelder (***)

Date 06-02-2013 03:18

800 a month is a steal down here those shops bring about .75 cents to 1.00 dollar a square foot

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 06-02-2013 21:14

got a 4k toyota up the road from me, propane, with a side shift carriage, don't know the hours but runs, don't leak and don't smoke, if I remember right air tires 3k. Got some contacts at the hyster place I can call em and see what they got if ya want. I would have to rent a trailer to haul it to you but no biggie, Im pretty sure any fork truck would exceed my trailers capacity before both axles got on it.

Kinda jealous of ya right now lol.

By Stringer (***)

Date 06-04-2013 13:59

I think you are in a good point in time for this. I would agree with another poster that your hire is the critical decision. A good guy will be the difference.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 06-05-2013 04:17

Yeah, had plenty of dark days and sure there are more ahead. I resent an invoice to a bad client from last year. They screwed me out of $7k cause they bid the job wrong and figured if they were going to lose money so should I.

Anyhow, I found an invoice from them for $300, had all of my legal jargon on it. Sent it off with a harsh cover letter telling them that the $7k invoice did not have the legal wording but this invoice did. The guy told me last year that he would fight all the way for the seven grand even though he knew he was screwing me, just to cost me more money. I told them in the fax that they could push the issue and fight all they wanted to on this because I had the legal terms in the invoice, it was way past due. He called about 20 mintues after I sent it and asked what that was about. Refreshed his memory, heard his sob story about how they lost $35k on the job(don't give a f....)

Anyhow, 18 engines running and that much work $12k is a drop in the hat. I know a few guys that spend money like it flows from a faucet and I just stand back and wonder how. More engines equals more work which means more invoices blasting in so there is more in the piggy bank to cover such things.

Employees, well, last year I hired a guy for a month or two. Prior service military guy. Worked his arse off, took direction well, always on time. We both complained together about the idiots on the job but we're civilians now so we can complain. I wish I could have kept him.

My new guy that is temporary but kinda hoping I can keep work coming in and get him trained is a prior service Marine. Which, works well since I am too. Same thing, works hard, ask him to do something and he does it, no questions asked, no complaints. Can cut him loose on something and he'll get it done. As a veteran I think I know exactly which route I will be taking when it comes to hiring folks. Prior service military is on the top of my list and will be the guys I hire.

Guess I might be a little "racist" in that sense. I have hired a few guys that were not military, paid them very well for what they were doing and they sucked elephant balls. We busted tail last week getting this gear ready for the bridge and he had a miserable job of drilling 80 holes, 4 holes per piece. He knocked it out, never griped, groaned. He drilled his butt off the other day, 80 holes, 4 holes per piece, 5/8". Told him he did a bang up job, always tell my guys how good they do. From 1995-2008 I went thru 11-12 different jobs, "good work" was rare. They were sure to beat your arse if something bad happened, remember two years down the road that one phrase but "atta boys", unheard of.

By strother (***)

Date 06-06-2013 00:48

Shawn, I agree about the prior service military guys. Best employee I ever had was a Marine . He went to boot camp straight out of high school and served five years with seven months in Iraq. Got home went to welding school then hired on with me . He worked his ass off for me whether it was welding or sitting on a bucket in the heat all day handing me rods. When asked him to do something he never asked why just got it done. Wish I could have kept him but things got slow. Tried to hire him back a few months ago but he's got a good job with steady work . He actually got a raise when he told his boss he was considering going back to work with me. That made my day even if I couldn't get him back. All of the other 20 something olds I have hired are just immature. I've got one now one his way out. I think I will look for prior military to replace him.

By Duke

Date 06-06-2013 02:09

I was Air Force, but I will say, i have worked for, and with, ex Marines... you always know where you stand with them, and they will 'get er done'.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 06-06-2013 02:45

You can check that Helmets to Hardhats program. I know I went thru there looking for a welding job and got hooked up with the Boilermakers.

We were out putting in some posts for a gate at a cemetary. Guy comes over to talk with us, asks how I wound up in Tennessee. Tell him after the military....and he said something about "what branch" and I said Marines. He rared back, smiled and then it was on. My helper, Marine, me and this guy who just happened to big diggin' out a new plot. We talked for nearly an hour and from the many Marines we/I run across we have definitely been wired different and not all in good ways. Luckily most of us are still in control enough to keep the bad locked away in the dark area of our brain. We all agree though, don't break the glass to the little dark area unless you are really, really.....really are ready for it. I think the one guy said they need to take all of us older guys and drop us over in the sandbox and "break the glass" and turn us loose on them!

I believe what your saying. The don't call us hard chargers for nothing! My guy, same way. He don't weld but I had him running a plasma all day, then running a drill press all day, just boring repetative stuff. Did the job, knocked the stuff out and kept at it. Head down and working away. My guy last year was Air Force though and he was a working fool too. He was older though, well, a few years younger than me so I believe that played a part as well. But he could be left alone for half the day, come back and he would be working on something that I mentioned we could do later if we got caught up and he would actually try to figure stuff out as he was not very experienced in the whole pipe fitting thing.

The 20 somethings, pay them well to get them to bust tail and you'll be lucky if you can get them to bust a nail. I believe that most are looking for that plush, a/c, sit down job that pays six figures. Actually sweating is against their religion or something.

By Chris2626 (***)

Date 06-06-2013 04:13

Farm boys seem to work dam hard, I have never seen one that didn't. Worked one job they always complained about a guy not being to bright but boy would he work his arse off.
I think it's just in your up raising really.

By Dualie

Date 06-06-2013 04:58

problem is not many family farms left in america.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 06-06-2013 11:12

Haha! Your right there. Got lots of farms boys around here though. I remember pitchin' hay, pullin' chickens then cleaning out the buildings where they kept the chickens every year since I was 12. Made good money back then. They'd pay us $10 an hour! Felt like friggin' kings!

By Chris2626 (***)

Date 06-06-2013 16:26

Seriously it's peoples up bringing, I was taught to work hard for what you want and i do.

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 06-07-2013 01:23

strother, Funny you say that....Just sh*t canned a guy Friday, cause after almost a year he still couldn't put tools,equipment,supplies or bolts back to where they belong, couldn't do the simplest fabrications, took an hour + for lunch and the biggest thing that irritated me :yell:

...... at quitin' time its like he was "shot out of a cannon" didn't even stop to wash his hands or say he's leavin' :mad:

(if you can stop to B.S. all day on my time at least say good bye on your time!!!!!!) Had to run after him as he pulled out in his truck from the parking lot to give him the BAD news :eek:

Apparently didn't register with him till Monday, cause he texted the foreman if he should come in??????? :confused:

At twenty years old I don't want to hear about your girls pregnant, need to move out, vehicle don't run, etc.......Just show up "DO YOUR JOB" and leave me alone......... :roll:

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 06-07-2013 01:35

Cummins..... Don't you love it when they use the lame excuse(didn't make any money/ lost money on job) Heard it 100 times ......Who cares pay me :evil:

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 06-07-2013 03:07

Haha! Yeah, this guys a f'n douchebag. I sent a fax, explaining that their invoice was now 1 year past due and they were being charged 1.5% per month. In the fax cover letter I told them that the last invoice I sent I did not have my legal terms on my invoice so Mr. Xxxxxxxx told me that he would fight it all the way costing me more money to collect the money owed to me. I continued to inform them that on the original invoice(also faxed) I had all of my legal terms in place and that if they would like to "fight it all the way" by all means please due so as my lawyer has said that my paperwork was in order.

Guy called me quick and I gave him plenty of attitude. He asked what that was about and said I got off on some tangent in my fax and asked "what was that". I told him it was due to the $7000 I got fudged out of that's when he started crying, "we lost $35,000", said I really didn't care.

Yeah, a whole world ripe with f'n idiots and they flock to me like stink on shyte.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 06-07-2013 05:15

Shawn I really dig hearing this "new" side of you...I know the client you are talking about and it makes me laugh my ass off.