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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Old welder
- - By Dark_Angel (*) Date 06-11-2013 13:30
Hey all, saw this old school welder outside the shop here and was wondering if anyone could tell me some information on it. Thanks

Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 06-11-2013 14:38
We used to call them submarines- for obvious reasons.  The one we had at a shipyard years ago had about 4-500 available amps and ran a smooth sweet arc. It was a Lincoln.  Don't see them much anymore.
Parent - By yojimbo (***) Date 06-12-2013 14:10
As others have pointed out, "torpedo" was the nickname given the machine.  My mental transposition was showing.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 06-11-2013 14:40
Well Dark_Angel, Looks to be either a Lincoln SAE 400 or 600 Motor/Generator. Do you do much SMAW or CAG?, if so that "little" beast will handle the issues for you. Seriously though, those machines have some of the finest arcs around. In my area they were used extensively in the shipyards WWII era and post. The control that has the Large Electrode, Special Application, Overhead & Vertical, and Normal Welding, allows for a really nice tayloring of the arc and it's characteristics. Is it a runner? Only real downside is probably power consumption and the whining noise that these machines often make. Details man! Tell us more about it. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-11-2013 14:43
UUMMM...I thought we called them torpedoes.  Whichever, they sound like a jet engine warming up when you turn them on, take forever to shut down, but weld some of the smoothest welds you could ever want.

Same basic machine as a lot of the engine drives the guys use for pipeline work but off electric drive instead of the gas or diesel.  If you can't pass a 3G plate test with one of those...you just plain can't weld. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 06-11-2013 18:34
I used something similar from Lincoln to build SAW weldments in my first job as a welder.  I am not sure if this is the same machine.  Isn't this a motor generator that will do SAW?  (AKA "Squirt" welding?)
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-11-2013 19:01
Obewan,  I posted the only manual connection thought I had on file for one like this it shows stick welding.  Found one more I'll post below with other one that is mostly a parts manual showing other DC source generator welders.  Lincoln made lots of belt driven welders back then too.  There were others and I've heard some of these called aircraft welders too but Lincoln also made some called aircraft welders with the smaller diameter motor driven generator standing vertical.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 06-11-2013 19:52
I've seen one of those before, where was it.....

Oh, check in the bible, I think they mention Jesus using one of these things and then telling Noah about it to build the stalls for the animals on the ark!! LOL!!

Pretty sweet find right there though, that's a piece of history!
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-12-2013 07:41
I thought the ark was wood ?   If they had welded the Titanic with one these maybe it wouldn't have broke ? lol
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-12-2013 16:48
What...You have not had the pleasure of using the 'wood' electrodes??  :lol: 

I think they fall into the D2.3 Codes-Carpentry,  right close to the farm code.  It's for those guys who cut twice and it's still too short.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By cddolan74 (**) Date 06-13-2013 15:11
wood rods smell pretty good depending on what tree you got them from
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 06-12-2013 23:54
Ahhh, you didn't read carefully FixaLinc, noah used it to build the animal stalls, hahaha!!
Parent - By Darrell_B (*) Date 06-13-2013 22:40
I started welding in 1974. My first SMAW AWS test was done with one of those. They actually run pretty sweet. As another poster pointed out, it will run big carbon arc with ease. Noisy as hell, but great old machines.
- By Dark_Angel (*) Date 06-11-2013 15:46
Most of my day is spent on a pipeline or on a job site fabricating but we have been at the yard fabbing parts up an well this old bugger was just sitting outside the shop here and nobody knew much about it so that's why I posted it on here figuring there's someone that would know a thing or two about it. Thanks for the information also!
- - By Dark_Angel (*) Date 06-11-2013 15:48
Any idea what year this machine would be roughly?
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 06-11-2013 15:51
If you have the Mod. No. and serial # you can go the Lincoln website and find that out or I believe that Bill's Welder Repair has a similar listing. I am thinking that a fellow on here by the handle of "Fixalinc" might also be able to help you out with that information. Good luck and best regards, Allan
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-11-2013 18:42 Edited 06-11-2013 19:13
Not sure how long these machines were made but the last manual I have on them says 1957 in the corner.  I thought they originated from 1930s but not real sure at least 1940s WWII era because most of them you find got Army green paint on them and were sold surplus later on.  Like the others said these were dubbed the "Torpedo" welders because of their shape, physical size & weight.  I've heard them called Fat Boy welders too.  It could be the Shield Arc 200, 300 or 400 DC Motor Driven DC welder but there were others.  Here is a link to one manual I had on file for them.  If you scroll through it you see the larger ones had the nose cone cover shaped more like the one in your pic.  The front cover one on the manual is probably the 200 or 300.  You can contact Lincoln Electric www.lincolnelectric.com  with the model, serial & code numbers off that one to know for sure because like I said there were other models of this style back then.  If you haven't already post it over on Welding Web too as there are some older than Allan or me that will recognize it I'm sure.  After the manual pdf file loads mouse around in the lower right corner usually and it will let you save it to view larger with Adobe reader. 

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im218.pdf

I found one more shows motor and belt driven DC welder sources was last updated in June 1983.  Bet Lincoln wasn't selling any or probably no parts either in 1983 but who knows.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im229.pdf

Lincoln made many belt driven welders over the years some were coupled to AC or DC motors or other gasoline or diesel engines over the years in all kinds of fashion.  IM112 shows another one of the golden oldies motor driven or belt driven. 

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im112.pdf

IM107 shows the belted drive "Junior" 200" generator it is similar the DC Jr. driven by Wisconsin V4 engines that Lincoln put out. 

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im107.pdf
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 06-11-2013 19:10
We used one like that years ago but it was a Hobart machine and it sounded like jet engine.

                           M.G.
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-11-2013 19:17
Yes, I've seen the Hobarts too but don't have any info on those.  May not find info on those from the Hobart of today either but I've been told if you find the right contacts with Miller they or someone they know might can dig up older Hobart information.  I'm not old enough to have welded with these lol.  :razz:
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 06-11-2013 21:54
Hobart has a museum with a lot of the welding machine that they built, some of the first ones. You can probable contact Hobart in Troy Ohio and fine some information. Yes, I think you are right about Miller.

                               M.G.
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-12-2013 07:18
I didn't know Hobart had a museum would be interesting to see.  Thinking read someone else got Hobart info from the ITW Miller branch.  A lot of the water well drillers here still have their old Hobarts and won't sell them.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-11-2013 19:58
Hello Glen, thanks for the correction on the name, Shield Arc IS the correct designation not SAE. For some reason it sticks in my mind that these were built with even higher amperage outputs. I worked in a rock quarry many years ago and I am pretty sure that the "torpedo" that I was using there was capable of 800 amps. We were running 5/16" rod with a filler bar(1/2" X 5/8") that we melted into the puddle when we did the final pass of hard facing over the underlay, hot stuff. Thanks for the great info. as usual. Hope the weather and all is well down in your area. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-11-2013 20:22
You want a machine that can run 3/8 air arc electrodes all day long, I know ours would do at least 600 amps.  But they did make smaller ones.

The more you cranked them up the noisier they got.  Running air arc would run you out of the building.  :lol:

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-12-2013 07:31
Allan, Take a look at the IM229 manual I added and it calls them SAE so you were right as well.  I just remember seeing them in shops sitting along a wall or back corner not being used and then they all that those round vertical red or gray ones that hummed a lot too.  Don't know how many amps the bigger ones of these put out.  Surely there was something that size or larger before the SAM 650 came out.  Our weather has been changed finally from extreme drought to some good rains greening things up but it always comes with hail & high wind damages as well.  Lots of violent hail storms I was out in one got tennis ball size stones had to take cover a tornadic cloud spawned funnels but we lucked out with it going around us.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-12-2013 14:43
Well Glen, then maybe, just maybe, my memory isn't completely gone. Glad to hear of things getting greener, not glad to hear of that sort of hail or the funnel clouds. Keep your head low and stay safe. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By Northweldor (***) Date 06-12-2013 16:35 Edited 06-12-2013 16:39
Back in the 70's, a high school near us had 10 of these screaming away in a walled-off upstairs mezzanine, and the instructor told me he couldn't enter without hearing protection, but seldom had to, as  the only problems they had was the occasional brush replacement. Be a great machine to restore, if you had 3-phase power, a shed to put it in, and no close neighbors! Were also still commonly used in fab shops at that time.
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-14-2013 13:01
Allan, I bet it was capable of 800 amps or more.  I found several more big old style torpedo type welders.  They made a SA-800 and Shield Arc double looking one that put out 1200 amps & another 1500 amps !  :eek:

The Lincoln "Shield Arc" 1200 Amp Welder for Automatic Welding with The "Lincolnweld" Process.  

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im115.pdf

Shield Arc 1500 amp

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im178.pdf

SA-800 & SA-750 

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im205.pdf

Shield Arc SAC-300 & SAC-500 AC welders

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im104.pdf

SAE 900

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im169.pdf

This might be the one Obewan was thinking about ?  

Innershield SAN 600, SAN 900, SAN 1000 & SAN 1100

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im169.pdf
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 06-14-2013 14:02
Great links, Glen, thanks for including those. Some pretty cool stuff considering the age and all. Of course that just goes to show that the "old" dogs aren't really too far out of the fight even now. Best regards, Allan
- - By lo-hi (**) Date 06-12-2013 17:09
Worked on a couple of bio-energy plants up north and the crew building the water storage tanks used them. They had a 40' box trailer with a monster cat power plant and 6 of those torepdo welders in it.Pretty impressive setup and incredably loud.
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 06-12-2013 18:49
That figures them using high amp welders like that.  I was told if ever bought a SAM 600 or 650 some water tower builders would buy them.
Parent - By Stringer (***) Date 06-13-2013 01:21
You can dim the lights startin' 'em up.
- - By Dark_Angel (*) Date 06-19-2013 23:30
Oh it dimmed the lights alright! It actually blew the breaker trying to start that machine.

But I talked to the owner of the company and am looking to buy it and possibly restore it. My question is how much is something like this worth in its current condition?

It currently doesn't start, seems like it wants to though. Sounds like its knocking a bit and I haven't opened it to check the brushes etc. So what would be a fair offer where I'm not low balling him?
Parent - By Chris2626 (***) Date 06-20-2013 03:07
Seriously years ago I remember seeing them sell for 75 dollars on ebay. I heard the same thing that these welders were extremely smooth to weld with like the old sa 200's
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Old welder

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