Prequalified Square Groove

By russelsl Date 07-24-2013 15:23

In reference to the attached sketch. Sub Assy A is first welded with a 1/2" fillet and then welded to Sub Assy B by a square groove weld callout. All plates are 1" thick A36. From what I can tell, the square groove weld is not supported by "prequalified" procedure and must be qualified to Clause 4. Furthermore, Table 4.5, Variable 32 requires the PQR to be performed using a square groove weld geometry. In addition, whereas the weld is PJP, macro examinations per 4.11 are required. Could someone please chime in concurrence? I have been working extensively with Section IX for years. I am finding D1.1 a bit confusing in certain areas.[img][/img]

Attachment: squaregroove.jpg - Squaregroove (58k)

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-24-2013 17:09 Edited 07-24-2013 17:12

Russel,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

Back up, slow down, take a deep breath... Relax,... :lol:

Now, the black area, is that a completed fillet weld for sub Assy A?
Are the sub assymblies welded on both sides of the corner joints?
Does the square butt weld fill in the white area between sub assy A & B? Thus .71" wide by about .5" deep?

If I am seeing what I think I am seeing it is more properly a groove weld, not a butt weld. Now, groove welds are often used to weld butt joints. It appears they have called out the 'joint' leaving the exact 'weld' to the fabricators discretion.

Does it get welded along the side where the members faying surfaces are in tight contact? The welding symbol does not indicate an all around condition.

If it is such a groove weld to complete the assymbly then it can be accomplished without a PQR from Clause 4 because you can do it using one of the Pre-Approved designations from Clause 3.

But, I am not totally certain as to what I am looking out and what you are dealing with. More information would really help, at least for me.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By russelsl Date 07-24-2013 19:00

Brent,
Thanks for your response.
I am attaching an updated sketch in an effort to fill in some of the requested additional detail.
So in reply:
1) Yes, the black area is the completed fillet weld for sub Assy A.
2) See additional details
3) Yes, the square butt weld is the white area between the sub assemblies (.71" x .5").

I would tend to agree with you regarding not being a butt weld. I think it may be more appropriately defined as a corner joint. I am not sure how this is relevant. The Designer has call out a square groove weld on the applicable design drawing.

4) See updated sketch

5) Which Pre-Approved designation from Clause 3 do you think is appropriate?

Thanks again, Russell
[img][/img]

Attachment: squaregroovedetail.jpg - square groove detail (74k)

By gastonM (**)

Date 08-07-2013 21:12

Russel: if you consider a groove weld that must support transverse load to its longitudinal axis, i dont think so, because of members 1 and 3, are misaligned t/2. I would recommend qualify the joint, in first instance, considering that weld will be done in flat position, then it seem a bevel groove prohibited by 2.18, in second instance, considering other position, if the edge of member 2 that act as a backing, can lead to burn through if not properly fitted-up. In other hand if you consider the weld carries shear from member 2, to 3. I would accept a prequalified WPS for fillet weld.
In respect of difference between ASME IX and D1.1, i think the following

Section IX states: joint preparation is not a esential variable, appealing to the user logical reasoning, because nobody believes that can do a CJP on 3 inch square butt joint welding from one side with GMAW for example.

D1.1 states: you can combine WPS. then for a given set of variables, you can change joint preparation, chosing prequalified or qualified joints preparations, limiting any user reasoning

Best Regards

Gastón