The sketches of welder performance tests depicted in D1.1 are the minimum testing requirements that must be administered to meet D1.1. There are no performance tests for plate or tubulars depicted in D1.1 that include a back gouging operation. Once the welder is tested with backing and if he/she passes, the contractor can administer any additional cockamamie test they can dream up.
Best regards - Al
Fit,
I was waiting to see if you might still have questions about this before just running on at the keys. Thought I would add a couple of thoughts anyway, just can't keep my keys still (mouth shut).
So, first off, remember your differences between Clause 3 for Prequalified WPS's and their variables and Clause 4 Qualification (Both PQR's and Welder Performance Qualification).
Thus, second, as you look at the Tables of Clause 4 you have to keep your Tables separated as well for PQR's and Welder Performance.
Accordingly, you have a correct WPS for your 1" groove weld with back gouge as a PreQualified WPS as long as all other essential variables fall into that category.
As for your Superintendents desire: for in house certs you can do anything you like. BUT, if they want to be able to say they are qualified to AWS D1.1 specifications then, as Al stated, they must complete the weld test as laid out for Qualification in Clause 4 Figures, Tables, and text. Then, they can add any test they want to make sure their personnel can do the job as it will be performed in production. In other words, you don't HAVE to follow the WPS as written for a weld test, but you should have a WPS for the weld test and see if the welder knows what he is looking at and can perform according to written directions and not just fly by the seat of his pants and do what he thinks 'feels' good to get a 'good' weld.
Now, the Table you sited, Table 4.5, is for the Essential Variables of a PQR that would make Requalification of the PQR necessary. Thus, in line 34, if your WPS said you needed backing (not necessarily straps- see def of 'backing') you must do another PQR if you omit the backing and go with another method for completing CJP's. Notice, this is to qualify a procedure that is not covered as a PreQualified WPS, and then doing something different in production than how you qualified the procedure.
No, Table 4.12 doesn't help you either. That goes the same direction. The welder doing the welding to qualify the procedure must now be requalified, whereas the other one was the procedure that needed to be requalified, if you omit the backing when it was used in the original WPQR test.
Have I confused you yet? Let's go this route.
When you want to qualify a welder:
First, do you have either a WPS that is Clause 3 or 4 approved? The answer appears to be yes from your OP.
Second, go to Clause 4 Part C Performance Qualification.
Start reading. Only you can come up with the exact test required. But, based upon your OP description,
Start with Table 4.10 and make sure you are using the correct position to qualify your welders.
Then, from Table 4.11 make sure you are using the correct thickness that will cover how you want them qualified (I'm going to guess 1" for unlimited qualification). As well as knowing rather you are going to use fillet or groove testing (in your case groove). Which will now lead you to 4.23 text which will lead you to Figure 4.21. That is what you will use to qualify your welders to D1.1.
If the super wants something different, add it afterward. Two tests to complete your process.
Now have I confused you? Hopefully not. Let us know though, don't just leave us hanging.
Have a Great Day, Brent
Just to reinforce what Brent has stated, I have a customer that initially qualifies the welder using standard AWS performance tests. First is the T-fillet break which is their "Ok, you know how to weld" test. Then it is on to the 3/8 inch grooved plate test, then the 6 inch schedule 40 pipe test in the 6G position for those welders with advanced skills. Once the AWS standard performance tests have been passed the final test is used to qualify welders that with be fitting and welding complex joints. For that the welder has to weld a 14 inch mitered pipe joint that is tested to destruction using a burst test.
The last qualification test is not a code required test, it is for the contractor's peace of mind to ensure the welder has the skill needed to meet their quality requirements.
Best regards - Al
Sorry it took so long to respond. Long hours on hot days. Like you said Brent, just read. Thanks, I now understand Al's comment.
Looks like the WPS these folks dreamed up, made a simple 3G, 4G harder than necessary. Now there crying why they can't find low priced welders to pass a Tubular Butt Joint
design on 1" plate (page 178 fig. 4.24). They should have started with the the backing strap (Fig 4.21 pg. 176). Then they could qualify their welders with the backing strap (easier test) and they could still weld open roots on the I-Beam flanges as long as they back gouged. Did I get that right?
If so they are gonna cry. Because now I have to test every welder with an open root. The welders that can pass it with ease, want more money then they are willing to pay.
I like your idea about having a WPS to see if the welder know what he's looking at but that another story.
Today was my first administered bend test. The welder's coupons were acceptable. I took pictures like it was my first grandchild.
This side bend test is my company's first in house test and mine as well. Of course I had a half a dozen bystanders giving me directions from every angle, so I would like to ask one more question:
The plate is 1" so I cut out my side coupons in accordance with fig 4.21 and prep with fig. 4.14 pg 169. Here is the OOPS! I grind off the cap and root cap. Was that a no no? I don't see where it tells me to do so unless it's 1 1/2" or thicker and that would be machined off. On Face and Root Bends (fig 4.12 index C) they tell you you have too.
But in Side Bend Specimens is it up personal preference? We did a UT scan before we cut the test plates if that makes any difference.
My Super tell me that's OK, but he want's welders in a bad way. It will be my butt if 3rd party would want to see our first straps. If I was wrong grinding off the cap and root, could I cut out another set of coupons?
Another question, I've seen people save their straps is there somewhere in D1.1 that says you should?
By the By;
Maybe I should change my handle, it might be a bit miss leading with all the questions I'm asking.
Fit meaning I'm pretty healthy for my age.
Again, Thanks for the comments and your quick responses, I'll try to do the same.
You remove the backing and the face reinforcement flush with the adjoining base metal. The sharp corners are "broken" or rounded with a file.
You get what you pay for. Welders that pass the open root 6GR test for tubular T,Y, and K joints deserve more money. If the company doesn't want to pay for the skills, the welders with the best skills set will move on to greener pastures and you will have a steady job qualifying new welders as they come in, pass the test, and leave.
It is a win-win for the welders and you. Keep your resume up to date.
Best regards - Al
The sharp corners were touched off slightly with a polishing pad less than 1/8". You mention filing off the corners. I was very careful to use the buffer's rotation with the length of the coupon, so it wouldn't cause unnecessary stress during the test. Another OOPS perhaps?
Removing the face reinforcement and backing weld from the coupon was that a bust, for side bends?
The code isn't perfect. There are mistakes, omissions, assumptions made, etc.
The common practice is to remove the face reinforcement and backing before bending any sample, whether it is a transverse or longitudinal bend. If you look at the sketches for figures 4.12 and 4.13 you will see the backing is removed and the faces made flush.
Best regards - Al
Thanks Al.
I started with this company as a welder 15 yrs. ago. Its a great company and now growing so fast. I saw the opportunity to better myself and the company, by studying and achieving my CWI. But for 3 years just looking at welds and preforming dimensional checks, you don't get to open the code book as much.
Word to the young and up and coming CWI's. Don't get comfortable, keep reading your code books. For when the time comes to preform and face challenges, you have to be ready.
Thanks for everyone's help
By 803056 
Date 08-12-2013 11:13
Edited 08-12-2013 11:15
I rarely examine welds without my code in hand. It is worn, torn, and has more notes than the margins can hold.
A non-compliances in the written report references the code provision that was violated. Let's fact facts, if the inspector doesn't take the time to do his homework, no one else is going to did it for him.
Al
