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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Is it just me?
- - By CWI555 (*****) Date 01-27-2014 13:21
Is it just me, or has there been an increase of people either wanting their research performed for them, or school work done for them?
I don't mind helping, but I do mind people who have sold themselves as third party guru's getting answers from an internet forum to profit for themselves.

In my eyes, that's wrong on several levels. First and foremost it's not ethical and dishonest for whomever their client is.

Then there is the information. Any person or persons seeking such information obviously doesn't have the answer or they wouldn't be here.
The nature of the questions they are asking are many times simple.  I could understand a specific nuance problem, but some of these questions are of the 101 brand.
This  raises a question in my mind. Many of the things members of this forum deal with could be immediately dangerous to life and property should they fail,
so what other 'answers' have these clueless people provided that may kill someone?
When a person of the nature described above enters, is it the ethical thing to do in answering, or are we potentially feeding the beast that will likely kill someone?

Is it just me, or is there a real concern in that regards?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-27-2014 17:44
The forum has gained a reputation above other welding forums for excellence and technical accuracy... So logically more people will come to ask their questions eh?

Nonetheless, your consern is real.

I ask quite a few questions here myself and would not have been able to complete projects without guidence/mentoring I have recieved via the form and the people here I have networked with.

Infact I have headhunted right out of forum member ranks :)

The responses from forum members are for free... and as Al would say... "You get what you pay for"

I also worry about language barriers that sometimes come up; wondering if the questioner or respondent are really both on the same page.

As far as students looking for answers?  I'm ambivelant...  In one way they may hurt themselves by not learning how to properly research, on the other hand, they may stick around and begin to learn exactly the right way to gather data, network and grow professionally.

Don't let it get ya down man !
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-27-2014 18:09
Besides guys, isn't going to the internet a good and valuable part of 'research' in this current computer age?  Depending upon if attempting to be lazy and have someone else to your work or just being a good researcher and learning from the responses, it can go either way.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 01-27-2014 21:25
Interesting question and one that I have had myself for quite a while.

I don't agree with giving basic engineering answers away for free with little or no initial research by the OP, however more and more simple questions are being asked by supposedly responsible people. At the end of the day, this is a forum and each of us can only express opinions on here, like Al says 'You get what you pay for'.

When someone is quoted as stating something either about code or fabrication techniques or even about the best performing cut of wheel, are these views being repeated as verbatim in a boardroom across the world? It makes me wonder!

As anyone familiar with Henry's posts, their is a lifetimes knowledge out there in the interweb, more infact. I doubt I could work thru what is on the HD of this laptop alone in the time I have left on this planet. I realise this is easily the most informative and educated forum about welding related matters on the net and it is very easy to come on here and ask a simple question or even a hard question and someone WILL answer it before long. But sometimes it is the better option to lead someone to knowledge rather than just serve in up in a big heap and let the person learn from it slowly!
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-29-2014 04:30
So what is it you're really trying to say? Because I'm not understanding what you mean.
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 01-29-2014 05:15
Simple really Henry, sometimes we are all guilty of giving  too much information away without making people work for it. If people have to work for it, they tend to remember it better. Do you understand now?
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 01-29-2014 09:41
I agree that giving direction to the answer is superior to spoon feeding someone. The old "give a fish/teach to fish" analogy. I've found Henry's posts to be vague enough in details, yet provide a vast wealth of info that allows one to find the answer and (unfortunately :confused:) seek out more questions. I seem incapable of the art of ferreting out needed info on the internet. For some reason, my searches usually lead to the same sources and leave me lacking the precise info needed. Quotes and rewording and other refinements only lead me in circles many times.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-31-2014 08:41
What are you implying?

Because if you're saying that I'm too vague with my answers then I have to reply that it totally depends on the context of the query or whether or not the thread consist of mainly compiling of resources.. Then their are some posts that I don't even bother with mainly because of the lack of comprehensive working information available from the OP to give a sound direction to take in solving their queries... Then there's the structure and intent of some queries that I refuse to get involved with any longer or the topics being discussed are not aligned with my strengths regarding my own personal knowledge and/or experience or not being current on some of the topics either..

Now, if my post seem to be an overload of raw data with no direction or relation to the topic, then please cite them to me because I'm not aware of any that do not pertain to the topics at hand... The only exception is either when I go off topic in a thread or when I post in the OTBG section of this forum.

And if my posts aren't your cup of tea, then simply go to a post or thread that is because there's no rule that states when one opens a topic thread, that they're required to read either the specific posts or any of the thread if they may seem to be either too vague or boring or insignificant or whatever it is that you don't like, agree or aren't interested in.

Finally, if anyone has something to say about any of my posts that maybe can be construed as being critical, then please send me a PM so we can discuss this outside of the thread and not distract any of the other members or visiting participants from the the thread topic and we don't end up having a debate which also ends up becoming a distraction... If you want to continue to debate this topic then go ahead and be my guest but, I will not bother to reply any further especially if the point is to blame anyone here regarding the quality of information, knowledge, or experience that's being shared or the lack of - by other folks in here because it's not my place to do so and it shows a total lack of respect towards my fellow members in here.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By 46.00 (****) Date 01-31-2014 11:31
Henry, you seem to be taking this on a personal level?

I believe we are at odds here with our language differences.

I used your name as in relation to the quality of information that is available from the internet and that which your are quite rightly known for providing.
Parent - By lo-hi (**) Date 01-29-2014 11:55
On the other hand, this site has been a source of continuing education for many people. Whether an old hand or a beginner, if your in the trade this has to be the most educational and entertaining site related to welding. It couldn't be that without everybody working together. Given that this is world wide, people will show up that are confusing and disorientated from time to time. I try to delete mine before I post. Thanks to everyone.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 01-31-2014 00:34
Those third party guru's that come for validation obviously do not know the role of a third party guru is to make up a lot of stuff.
A consultant on the other hand does deep probing questioning, lots of research, ask the customer what the end result they want, more probing questions and research, at another meeting ask the customer how they are doing it now and how they want to do it in the future, more probing questions and research.
Final meeting with the customer agree the way they are doing it is wrong, the way they want to do it in the future is right then hand them a big bill.
Them probing questions and research don't come cheep.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-27-2014 22:38
Sometimes the person posting is looking for other opinions as a sanity check, sometimes it is because they do not know where to start, and sometimes it is because they are too lazy to do their own research.

If it is the latter, their slothfulness will catch up with them soon enough. They will quote someone from the forum verbatim without fact checking first. Once discovered, a price will be exacted.

I am concerned with CWIs that are too lazy or too cheap to purchase the codes and standards they need to do the work they are being paid to perform. Once again, they will be caught with their pants down around their ankles or with their hand reaching under to the next stall and the results will be just one more shortened career as a consultant.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 01-27-2014 23:44
The old doctor at the party syndrome?  I do not think it has gotten any worse or better....it just is.  It is akin to the same thing of someone registering and saying I am a (xxxxxxxxx-Welder) and I need a number for a job, go ahead and hand over your hard won contact numbers to me with no history much less knowing me.  Do ya or Don't ya?  Well sometimes remaining silent and letting someone keep digging is doing them a favor.  With inspection and engineering inquires on here sometimes I wonder if there is not a language barrier at play as in the OP has materials on hand to reference that were not translated properly....I mean specifically if you take some of the ambiguity (situations) in some codes and then mass translate it into other languages or worse use a translating program, I could easily see confusion setting in with some far off person attempting to apply codes created here.
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Is it just me?

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