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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / remembered
- By ed17 (*) Date 05-21-2014 22:24
hi i forgot to put what process were using on my first post!! we are using FCAW-S DUALSHIELD E71T-1M/T9M H8 this is all A572-GR 50!! Also using innershield E71T-8!! Thanks again!
- - By ed17 (*) Date 05-21-2014 22:31
i guess my 1st post did not go thru!! i work at a small fab shop in cali. and we are having some problems understanding when PQR'S are necessary? we are trying to pass the D1.8/D1.8 welding test! the contractors inspector says we need pqr's foir the wps we are doing even though these are prequalified joints!! thanks
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-22-2014 04:43
Do you have D1.8 available to access?

You do realize that there are two types of qualification records? So regardless if the joint is "procedure" prequalified, you still have to "performance" qualify the welder(s) as well...
Are these Demand Critical joints?:eek::surprised::roll::roll::roll:

And if you're using layers of FCAW G that's intermixed with FCAW S (still Prequalified?) then each one of your filler metal types needs to be monitored for excessive exposure to moisture build up from the atmosphere after they're taken out of their packaging... Especially in humid environments more carefully in order to prevent the absorption of excess moisture in the filler metal wire(s) that could cause an unacceptable level of diffusible hydrogen in the weld metal by using the proper storage methods recommended by their manufacturer(s)...

There's a whole lot more to consider yet I don't have the time to go over it with you, and you should be able to find out what you need to know if you have copy of AWS D1.8 2009 available, and have consulted with someone more familiar with AWS D1.8 and your filler wire manufacturer...

Now I don't want to overload you with too many questions but I have ask whether or not you and your company has done this type of work before?
Btw, "WELDCOME TO THE WORLD'S GREATEST AWS WELDING FORUM!!!:surprised::grin::lol::surprised::twisted::wink::cool:"

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By ed17 (*) Date 05-22-2014 14:29
hi thanks so much for your input!! yes our company has been doing this type for awhile! i do have a copy of D1.8 2009!! Our co. is in cali. so not too much humid here! no we are not intermixing process!! thanks again for your help!! you are right 'the world's greatestwas welding forum'!!! :yell:
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-22-2014 21:01 Edited 05-23-2014 14:52
You're WELDCOME!

I just remembered that there are certain provisions regarding welder qualification and they are as follows:

"Welder Qualification
Clause 5 and Annex D of D1.8 are devoted to welder qualification. In addition to meeting the welder qualification requirements of D1.1, welders performing work under D1.8 are required to take the Supplemental Welder Qualification for Restricted Access Welding Test, as prescribed in Annex D, when
the production weld involves all of the following:

a) the weld is Demand Critical; and
b) the weld joins the beam bottom flange to a column flange; and
c) the weld must be made through a weld access hole in the beam web.

As mentioned above, the qualification of welders in accordance with Annex D is only required when all three of these preceding conditions are part of the production weld.
If any one is not present (i.e. a production weld that is not made through a weld access hole) this qualification is not required, even though such a weld may
be Demand Critical. See D1.8, clause 5.1.1

The Annex D test was designed to simulate restricted access conditions that are typically associated with welding a beam bottom flange to a column in a moment connection. However, unlike the production connection, the qualification test plate is a butt joint, permitting easier inspection and testing of the completed weld.
See D1.8, Annex D Figure D.1, D.2 and D.3.

Two test configurations are described in Annex D, known as Option A and Option B. Option A is to be used when steel backing is specified on the WPS, while Option B is used for open root joints, or joints backed with ceramic, copper or other non-steel materials. The type of test to be taken is dependent on the type of backing (if any) that will be used in production, and as shown on the WPS. See D1.8, clause 5.1.3 and Annex D clause D3.2, D3.3.
While the test plate can be tacked together by anyone, the welder must affix the weld tabs to the test plate. Also, the welder is required to measure the preheat and interpass temperature of the test plate assembly. See D1.8, Annex D clause D3.1.1, D3.1.3.

As is the case for D1.1, welders taking the Annex D test must qualify by welding process. In addition, the test plate must be welded with a deposition rate equal to or higher than that which will be used in production. It is wise, therefore, to use a slightly higher deposition rate in the welder qualification test so that the welder will be qualified to use all production WPSs. See D1.8, Annex D clause D3.1.2 After the test plate is complete, the various restriction plates are removed and the test plate is visually inspected.
Then, at the Contractor’s option, the test plate is non-destructively (NDT) or mechanically tested. NDT options include ultrasonic inspection (UT) and radiographic inspection (RT). Four bend tests are used for mechanical testing. See D1.8, Annex D clause D4.

The Annex D test is similar in design, and identical in purpose, to a similar test prescribed in FEMA 353. Welders who have been qualified previously using “similar restricted access plate tests” before D1.8 was issued are not required to take the Annex D test, providing all the time continuity requirements are still met. See D1.8, Annex D clause D1.
The qualification of a welder who has taken the Annex D Supplemental Welder Qualification test is valid for 36 months, providing the D1.1 continuity requirements are also met (i.e., the process is used at least every six months). See D1.8, clause 5.2."

"Welding Procedure Specifications (WPS's)
A welding procedure specification is “a document providing the required welding variables for a specific application to assure repeatability by properly trained welders and welding operators” according to AWS A3.0 Standard Terms and Definitions. AWS D1.1 requires WPSs to be documented (see D1.1 subclause 3.1, 4.6). Under D1.1, WPSs may be either prequalified or qualified by test, and both types of WPSs may be used under D1.8 as well.

In addition to meeting the requirements of D1.1, D1.8 mandates additional WPS requirements. Under D1.8, WPSs must list the filler metal manufacturer as well as the filler metal trade name (such as Lincoln Electric’s Innershield ®NR®-233) as opposed to showing only the AWS classification (in this case, E71T-8). D1.8 mandates a variety of other filler metal requirements that are addressed in the next section of this manual. See D1.8, clause 6.1(1). WPSs must also list one or more combinations of welding variables that produce heat inputs within the limits of the tests performed on the specific filler metal (this will be discussed in greater detail under
“Filler Metals”). Heat input is determined from the following equation:

Heat Input (H) = (60 x E x I)
                       __________
                          1000 S
Where: H = Heat input in KJ/in (KJ/mm)
           E = Arc voltage in volts
           I = Current in amps
           S = Travel speed in inches per minute (mm per minute)

The values for E, I and S as shown on the WPS must result in a heat input within the high and low heat input limits for the specific electrode being used.
See D1.8, clause 6.1(2). The welding process shown on the WPS may be SMAW, GMAW (except for short circuit transfer), FCAW (either self-shielded or gas-shielded) or SAW.

Other processes are permitted under specific conditions. See D1.8, clause 6.2.1. The maximum interpass temperature to be shown on the WPS shall not exceed
300°C (550°F), unless an alternative temperature (either higher or lower) has been established by test. See D1.8, clause 6.5."

There's a whole lot more but, I'm not going to put it all here... Instead, I'll just include the link to the above welding manual published by Lincoln Electric for AWS D1.8:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/us/en/literature/c165.pdf

So there you go... I hope this will help you out.:smile::grin::lol::twisted::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ed17 (*) Date 05-23-2014 14:28
hi henry, thanks so much and yes that helped alot!! all of the reqirements are meet so we have to do the test!! we are doing option 'b'!! Will let you know the outcome!! we had 5 welders from the field take the test 4 passed one failed! not to bad!! we are going to test the shop welders monday!! thanks again!!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / remembered

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