Let's Talk FCAW

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 09-03-2014 12:24

Shawn the wire you buy to do this should have that information with it. It is good to aways check it out first.

M.G.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-03-2014 13:32 Edited 09-03-2014 13:43

A lot of old hands like Lincoln NR211 (E71T-11) for a all purpose self shielded FCAW electrode... I hate it.. There are limitations on multi-pass welding and plate thickness... Plus it is not that user friendly.

I have use both Lincoln NR232 and ESAB Corshield-8   which are both E71T-8 self shielded electrodes in all positions on unlimited thicknesses with great happiness.   They are much easier to use, especially in vertical joints, have no plate thickness restrictions and slag removal is way more easy.

You can do substantially more work with FCAW on structural steel that you can ever get done with SMAW.

Real CV power is important if you want to comply with D1.1 prequalified procedures. (see 3.2.4)

Next, the best electrodes for a 3/8" fillet is going to be 1/16" (or .068) and that will be putting a strain on your Ranger, keeping WFS/Current at the lower mid range for that electrode...

Here is some data I have on file for E71T-8,,, Both can be gotten free online :)

Edit:
Note the differences in manufacturers suggested voltages and currents/VS WFS !
Lincoln NR232 @ 250 Amps (150 IPM) wants 20 volts
CoreShield8    @ 240 Amps (230 IPM) wants 24 volts

There is 0.005" difference in wire diameter (same rollers) but look at the differences in both voltage and current for a given Wire Feed Speed.

This is why it is pretty important to have the manufacturers specific data when using FCAW electrodes...   Even wires with exactly the same diameters may have a different thickness in the tubular wire itself... So different current density and therefore current carrying capacity at any given wire feed speed.

I believe Al spoke to this phenomena in a posting just the other day. (and probably said it better)

.

By lo-hi

Date 09-03-2014 14:01

I am kind of in the same boat as Shawn when it comes to the flux core wires. Started with coreshield 11 on cc running off of a big 40. Doing mostly bucket repair in flat position. That was many years ago and I only ran 4 to 5 spools, then realized that pipe welding was a lot nicer on the body and equipment. I did go back to the nr211mp for a couple of buckets this year and found that the 045 seemed to fit a 3/32,1/8 5/32 type of heat range. I'm pretty sure my next choice will be the Coreshield 8.While I don't do a lot of heavy structural, the construction repair can benefit from a good multi purpose wire. I still keep a tin of 3/16 7018 and 7028 to satisfy my inner caveman.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 09-04-2014 08:57

Thanks for the info Lawrence and of course lo-hi and Milton!! Appreciate the help!

By Superflux (****)

Date 09-03-2014 20:27

Shawn,
Here is your "Bible" for Lincoln's wires.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/global/Products/Consumable_Flux-CoredWires-Self-Shielded-Innershield-InnershieldNR-232/c32400.pdf

NR 211 is for 1/2" and under general fab work "around the farm/house" kinda wire. Repair/replacement of wear bars on buckets and fabricating widgets/thing-a-ma-jigs around the ranch is what it was made for. It's even recommended for galvanised sheet metal (see link below). We all know that you will Never get all the zinc off (or OUT!) of the steel.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Consumables/Pages/product.aspx?product=Products_Consumable_Flux-CoredWires-Self-Shielded-Innershield-InnershieldNR-211-MP(LincolnElectric)
Isn't NR 232 rated for 30mph wind?.
The problem you will encounter while researching these wires is that there is no "one size fits all". And worse than that is that there is no one formula that covers a broad range of sizes (thicknesses) and applications.
Your power plant. Might be time to upgrade (minimum) to a Classic 300 (pure DC for the occasional pipe job) to the inventory or swap over to a "Blue" Pipe-Pro. Oooohh!
Duty cycle is paramount when it comes to wire feed work. I really think you would be pushing an SA 250 on 1/16" wire. Contact Lincoln's customer support for advice. For 3/8 plate and above, you will want that size wire. Neither machine you've listed is ideal for efficiency on 1" plate and large fillet welds. The little Rangers are aircooled and may be rated at 100% duty cycle, but that was brand new with proper air flow and clean fins on the jugs. Can you really trust one to hold out under field conditions to earn a paycheck while pushing it to it's max???. I know I'd certainly get torqued outta shape if leads were strung out to 356 feet up on a tower and I was about 3 beads shy of finishing the job when my handy dandy aircooled "Do-it-all" machine decided to go feet in the air and poop the bed.

It might take a while, but squirt guns can grow on you for certain projects. Once you get past the initial learning curve... The LN 25 might not be the best option though for hundreds of feet up on a tower. Wire feeders get finicky about having bends in the gun cable.
Call if you want to chew the fat in detail. I hate typing!

By Superflux (****)

Date 09-03-2014 20:32

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/global/Products/Consumable_Flux-CoredWires-Self-Shielded-Innershield-InnershieldNR-232/c32400.pdf

I just noticed that even the guns have a duty cycle. Seems odd to me. Oh well...

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 09-03-2014 21:47

Thanks John, I figured the Ranger would be pushing it, even thought it would struggle running a rod. Last job welding at 400 ft, 75 feet off the tower, you do the math! 2/0. The SA was fine, the ranger I think would have a stroke! Or lack of stroke!

Been telling my clients I am looking into a machine, upgrading machine, something but need to keep busy to justify the expense. 300D or gulp.....vantage. Still not fond of those blue machines. I buy one of those I might as well get it with a Cat engine that way I have the two most expensive paint colors in the history of the world, Miller Blue and Caterpillar Yellow. Might be having a welding machine blow out sale at my house in the next 6-12 months. "Everything must go!! SA250! Ranger 8! 1951 shorthood parts! Crazy Shawn's welder clearance!!"

Thought I was over spending money.....$70,000 last year, what the heck, spend $20k next year......aye.....

By Dualie

Date 09-04-2014 05:38

IF your going to do a fair amount of self shield work .072 is really the most universally used diameter.   as for your Power Source the little gas drive trailblazer and 305 sized machines usually last around -4000 hours before they are done for its really taxing on them.

IF your going to step up and do it might as well do it right, and get a vantage.    we have several 300D's with CV kits but the vantages are far more versitle machines, better arc, more user friendly and plenty of extra AC power for tools and even another inverter.

You are going to run that ranger 8 into the ground fast trying to pull core wire.

T-8 wires weld like nothing else you ever ran,   Don't think your going to just get the stuff and head out on your first job, It takes about 60lbs or more for even the most seasoned xray quality stick welder to be even near competent enough to run it.

Don't let that BS label fool you the cats are just Perkins engines with yellow paint and cat prices.    And personally i think the quality has gone down hill since they started painting them yellow.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 09-04-2014 08:56

When I worked at the Cat dealer Perkins were great engines, this has been over a 14 years ago and almost 20. We always joked about the Cat paint costing so much though!

I figured the ranger was a long shot after finding some charts online, got a guy who is really interested in it anyhow so good excuse to move it along. Looked at a 305 yesterday and then started weighing the two machine hassle, one on truck, one on trailer for different jobs, then the cost of the 305 or similar -vs- a single larger machine. Welded a little with a vantage a week or so ago, had 3000 hours on it. It was not bad but didn't weld enough with it to really tell.

I got the machine in the shop, plugged into the wall, perhaps it's time to pick up some wire and play around in my free time! Thanks Duallie!

By ZCat

Date 09-04-2014 17:45

What I've found after doing a metric butt ton of welding with .045 Dualshield, is that my lowest commonly used setting is 27 and 300. I can do just about anything with that heat. Of course, if I can, I use more heat and wire for faster filling. But, if I need a single pass fillet that will be nice and smooth with no undercut, that's what I use.
As always, YMMV.

By JTMcC

Date 09-04-2014 21:49 Edited 09-04-2014 22:09

I'm guessing you are looking at monopole upgrades???
Correct me if I'm wrong.

A T-8 (.072' in 232) wire is really the only practical solution there (or really on any outside in the breeze heavier structural).

On those big 5'-6' vertical welds on multiple gussets you'll want that wire. Flat/horizontal fillets, my take only, it pays to go to 311Ni "if" you have a lot of them. Otherwise 232 turned way up will do fine. Having a box loaded with each of those wires pays off in some circumstances. Not in others.

The (kinda) problem with using 232 on a galv structure is you are running a lot of heat (by necessity). That's why it's sooo fast. But if you don't have access to the interior for applying zinc rich paint you can cause more probs. If you have a port then no problem. If you don't then you have to travel fast enough to not burn the interior coating.
Even doing that, running high heat and as fast a travel speed as sound weld allows, I still believe it will whip lohi stick by a major margin at the end of the job (even on a .250W monopole, but you best be truckin' on up at NHRA speeds :).

If Crown Castle is the owner, you are good to go. Smaller owners it can be a crap shoot.

I don't have a clue about 233 or coreshield 8, other people say they are more user friendly, but 232 is a requirement (by trade name) on so much field seismic work in the southwest that it is all I've ever used. And it's a friendly, happy wire once you get dialed in.

I've run (some of) Lincolns seismic wires (NR-232 & 311 Nickel) on both a Classic II (SA-250) w/CV module and on a Vantage 400. As an end user/owner there is no comparison to me. The Vantage makes the day go by so much easier.
With a remote, on a Vantage, in CV mode the remote becomes your voltage control so you have V at the remote and WFS on the LN-25, all a guy could hope for.

But wait, there's more. The Vantage Anger Management knob (arc control), in CV mode, becomes a pinch/inductance control. Woohoo. We're wallowin' in tall cotton now budrow. We now have a stupid level of control over wires that really need to be closely controlled for maximum production/day and the welder is happy/happy:

WFS on the box, V on the remote, and (got to truck back to the machine) pinch control on the faceplate. All a 232 soldier can really ask for in my opinion.

Somebody posted on here that Inductance/pinch control is no use with flux core wires but in my experience, running 232 and 311Ni, it's a great gift. Reduction of splatter can be LARGE. Happiness of the puddle gets better. I can spin the anger management dial and turn 311Ni from a big time clean production wire on large fillets to a stupid splattering harshly ugly mess.

I max that dude (inductance control/arc control) out with 232 but maybe I just don't know any better, I like 232 to have a rather harsh arc. With 311Ni I turn it till I get the least amont of splatter and it runs like a super-duper 7018 rod on crack. Seems to be faster working to me and puts more iron into the weld as opposed to splatter balls on the surrounding surfaces, my shirt, in my ear. YMMD.

I wouldn't go back (production wise or happy welding day wise) to a generator/CV module machine, those controls make me too happy.
I've seen "almost" the same happiness with Miller/Lincoln inverters using 232.
My limited experience only so take it or don't.

JT

On edit: I wouldn't think of putting a Ranger into this service for more than a week or two in an emergency. Not atoll if my living depended on it, there are so many people on site, 3rd party inspection, owner inspection, permits pulled, maybe contractor personel, a machine breakdown looks so bad there.
You really can get all of the galv off, that's the trick especially when your inspection is harsh or your personal criteria are strict.
The Ranger will resale for decent $$ toward a suitable power source.

High amps all day long rule in this world. Our typical 232 day runs the machine between 230 - 350 amps long term. Plus you need AC aux power for the rod oven (wire oven??), exhaust/cooling fan. The fire watch will want to charge his/her phone at some point in the day and owner rep will want to plug in his/her laptop : )

Take lot's of pictures, before, during, after : )

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-05-2014 11:53

What a great post !

"Happiness of the puddle"

I've never had the opportunity to run Vantage.. All my self shielded FCAW work was done on a Miller Trailblazer 302 that was in new condition. But what you say about dependability makes perfect sense. Ya gots to be dependable!

The different "brands" of T8 do run differently... Lincoln, Hobart and ESAB T8's all run pretty nice in my opinion, but NOT THE SAME.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 09-05-2014 13:24

Great post JT and thanks for taking the time! I've been eyeing the Vantage for some time now. Plugging in the over, phone or laptop they can suck the power from the compound!! Haha!! My first priority when I get onsite, locate an outlet to run grinders, rod ovens, chargers!! LoL!!!

I just need to start running some of these different wires on my machine in the shop, play around with them, do 3G/4G and start selling off some things.

By Blaster (***)

Date 09-06-2014 02:48

I love welding t-8 wires. They really get the work done quickly, and are challenging to run to their potential.

I have burned large quantities of 232 and Coreshield 8, and a fair bit of 233. Personally I prefer the more aggressive arc and responsiveness of NR-232. Coreshield 8 and 233 are more forgiving and easier. Like anything, it is easy once you know how to do it. The mistake most make initially is trying to use 7018 techniques, which generally are not a good match to these wires.

Something to consider when practicing is that these wires, especially 232, deteriorate in welding performance rather quickly as they absorb moisture, making them more unforgiving of less than optimum technique. So I recommend keeping the wire fresh / stored properly even when just practicing.

I agree with someone above, .072" is a good general purpose diameter

By JTMcC

Date 09-06-2014 21:44

You can always run 203 Ni wire for a more 7018 like experience. Less deposition than 232 but quite a bit more than stick.

It's still somewhat voltage sensitive but it does run more like a traditional rod, you will get ripples. It's a T-8 wire as well.

J