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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / WPQR
- - By WELDICCAWSCWI (**) Date 10-18-2014 16:09
Under API 1104 and CFR49.95 is it permissible for a contractor to use a WPQR from another company
rewrite the WPQR on their company letterhead and submit it to the client .
Parent - By 46.00 (****) Date 10-19-2014 03:09
I am no expert on API but I would have thought copyright laws would apply to what you are suggesting? It is not ethical at least!
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-19-2014 05:03 Edited 10-19-2014 05:08
The only way that what you're describing can be approved, and accepted is by the EOR (Engineer Of Record) accepting the paper and if it's not accepted, then re-qualification is mandatory... Because the EOR is the only person that has the authority override the code if it states otherwise unless the owner objects but that's another story... Just remember to get it in writing and signed by the EOR to CYA... At least, that's how I remember it.:eek::grin::lol::yell::twisted::yell::lol::surprised::smile::roll::wink::cool:

Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-19-2014 13:52
Under most all codes, as I recall, you need to run your own.

By doing so, you are proving that at least one person in your facility can qualify under the exact set of parameters that you plan to use to complete the job.

The electrode manufacturer and classification used, process, gas, operating parameters for volts and wire feed speed or amps for SMAW, etc.  Just because the basic variables have been matched doesn't mean everything has or that you have even one person who can pass a weld test to that WPS. 

Besides, without the written permission of the company who ran the original you are stealing proprietary information as to how they work and the monetary outlay that they made to prove they can accomplish the work. 

Under API there are no preapproved WPS's as in D1.1.  No matter how often a procedure has been successfully done they do not recognize it as proof it can be duplicated by you. 

But, as Henry notes, engineers are free to accept those things even with some variations.  The problem really arises with ownership of the WPQR and WPS's that you are wanting to 'copy'.  They are not yours. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By WELDICCAWSCWI (**) Date 10-19-2014 18:54
The reason im concerned about this is that I helped write and witnessed all nde and stamped the original
WPQR I don't want to be drawn into the falsifying of documents. This piping falls under CFR 49.95
which makes it a federal regulation which I don't believe an engineer can override.  in addition
they allowed the contractor to weld weldolets with no branch test qualified or welders tested.
I was a 3rd party inspector on this project. This all took place while I was off work do to a motorcyle accident
im going to notify DOT and PHMSA to cover my own ass in case anything goes wrong  thank you all for your
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-19-2014 19:31
Did you give permission to the contractor to rewrite the WPQR on their company letterhead while you were recuperating from the motorcycle accident? Well if you did and you helped write and qualify the original one then to me it's legit as long as there's a record that's evidence that you gave them permission to do that. If not, then you know what you must do... Good Luck.

Parent - By WELDICCAWSCWI (**) Date 10-19-2014 20:16
No i did not give permission to reuse this wpqr.i  have notified the project owner the testing agency and
the original contractor along with upper management of the engineering firm I was working for.
Parent - By 46.00 (****) Date 10-19-2014 19:48
Given the facts, and I'm pretty sure we haven't had them all, I would agree with Henry and make it a priority to inform the relevant authorities of any concerns you may have. If I found myself in such a situation, I would be a bit annoyed to be honest.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-19-2014 19:20 Edited 10-19-2014 19:25
You're correct Brent. API 1104 requires that everybody has to qualify to start on any job even if they were qualified on a previous API job to a different WPS... It doesn't specifically describe what is allowed with respect to what the OP is asking as to whether or not someone can just go about and rewrite the WPQR on their company letterhead and submit it to the client? However, it's not an ethical way of doing something like that especially if the other company isn't aware this is happening, and the fact that the person doing this is committing fraud. Heck No then! It's definitely not allowed...

AWS D1.1 Structural Welding Code does have Pre-qualified WPSs but any WPS that isn't pre-qualified, or is even slightly different in it's essential variables, and configuration according to Section 3 in AWS D1.1 shall be qualified first and recorded as per Section 4... D1.1 does have exceptions to accept another company's WPSs provided that properly documented evidence of previous WPS qualification may be used... According to D1.1, Section 4, clause 4.2, subclause, "Qualification Responsibility" "Properly documented WPSs qualified under the provisions of this code by a company that later has a name change due to voluntary action or consolidation with a parent company may utilize the new name on its WPS documents while maintaining the supporting PQR qualification records with the old company name... But if the OP says is true as to what actually happened, and there are no similar provisions in API 1104 then that's not ethical, not allowed, and is nothing more than submitting fraudulent documentation... And someone in charge must be made aware of this...

Now the EOR can overrule this of course, but if this were to happen., I would question the intelligence, intellect, and integrity of the engineer, and send an anonymous note to the owner so that they become aware of the shenanigans going on... Besides, why would anyone with any sort of respectable reputation ruin it for themselves by accepting this practice in the first place, and if the engineer cannot recognize the fraudulent action then the engineers competence comes into question... And if something does go wrong afterwards, and the investigation leads to the falsified paperwork submitted by the inspector and accepted by the EOR, then both will be in a really big heap of trouble to say the least!:eek::eek::eek::evil:

Parent - - By GlenL Date 06-19-2018 15:25
Good Day All,

Just asking for a little assistance, if anyone can assist please. Does anyone have a copy or even a template for a WPQR which has been produced for a Welder according to API-1104. I have not come across this before, and trying to familiarize myself with the WPS/PQR etc.

Thanks a lot.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-23-2018 00:44
I suggest you start a new thread. You might get a better response since this one is so old people are likely to skip it.

Do you have a copy of API 1104? If you do, use the "Insert Table" function in MSWord and reproduce the one in 1104. It isn't that difficult and you add a personal touch or two. I include a digital photograph of the welder on the performance test record.

Best regards - Al
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-21-2014 02:35
Don't worry about it. API 1104 isn't a real code. Pipelines hardly every blow up, or leak, damage property, or kill anyone.

Wait a minute, maybe I better think about this one before answering!!:wink:

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 10-21-2014 03:38
Yeah you must be thinking about 1104? Nothing ever happens to anything welded to that spec!
Parent - By Joey (***) Date 10-21-2014 09:54
If permissible, WPQR by google is free.

But is it enough to have WPQR without reviewing the test reports?

Can you rent the original test reports:lol:? smart a$$ question :lol::lol:

Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / WPQR

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