NY Con Edison welding test procedure?

By yojimbo (***)

Date 10-24-2014 14:57

Joseph-

There's really no alternative to practice and hood time. If you're looking for specific welding/joint fit/machine setting/technique tips you might visit rigwelders.com website and do a search. There are multiple threads for API 1104 testing/welding/practice tips. Enough info there to get you to a good close starting point although it seems to me you've been around here awhile and are probably an accomplished welder, if you're new to downhand pipe welding there are a few new tricks to learn. It's a pretty forgiving code to work to and getting it right is a lot less difficult than some make it out to be. Still no alternative to getting yourself dialed in with practice until your confidence and abilities are ready for the test booth and inspectors. If you already know all that and are just looking for specific Con Edison requirements, assuming they have specific things they look for, I can't offer any insight.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-24-2014 16:23

I don't know if he still works for Con Ed but, an old colleague named Ken Harry used to work there, and he ran the the welding school and the testing for new hires... If he's still there, be prepared for him to give you another test using ASME Section IX also... So practice both Down downhill as well as uphill progression ( just enough to keep sharp) and, GTAW open root pass also...

Ken Harry is very meticulous and detail oriented when it comes to welding so, don't assume that he may be lenient because he will not at all let any little issue go with respect to workmanship... Sp practice for the branch and you can spend less time welding in the uphill progression to keep that method fresh also... Good Luck!
Be prepared to spend some time there on test day.

Respectfully,
Henry

By S J

Date 10-24-2014 18:51 Edited 10-24-2014 18:54

API 1104??? Are we talking nuke or diesel? Maybe they need to perform some corrosion repairs for some of their backup power technology???

Some of the most important factors to consider for most employer welding tests are revealed by learning about the materials they need to weld, and then by investigating the applicable code requirements for successful qualification.

My own personal frustrations arise mostly from the excessive frequency of poorly written job descriptions, but that is neither here nor there relative to your present concern.

I am certainly no super expert relative to on-site welding support for commercial nuclear power plants, but I will offer this possibility – it might depend a lot on the age of the plant, followed by the sections of the plant are being supported – and then on issues posed by new equipment installations vs. existing equipment repairs.

You might be expected to qualify on carbon steels, stainless steels, Monel, Inconel, or perhaps even combinations of these materials if dissimilar alloy weld joints need to be qualified.

And, as Henry already mentioned, the ASME codes are a good reference to begin with – but AWS D1.1 is also reportedly used in some plants as well for piping structural support work – that is unlikely to fail and require maintenance if done properly.

ASME also has pipe codes, but I have only seen them used in the oil and gas industry, and I have not yet personally witnessed any nuclear power industry use.

Have you visited the Con Edison website? Some utilities provide interesting articles describing their operation's details, and occasionally they include some of their equipment specifications.
If you want to go through the drill, this might give you some insight into what might be expected – and details related to specific power industry hardware and qualifications are discussed in online forums like AWS and others from time to time.

You might also consider seeking information from other web resources like some of the contract houses and recruiters that might post job descriptions for power plant welders – but, again, the test requirements might vary according to the project.

If they offer an apprenticeship or welding school you will perhaps be way ahead of the game though. But, some of these programs are competitive and have long waiting lists.

I have not yet investigated materials suppliers to learn about the cost of practice materials for people who might want to attempt extra-curricular practice at their home or school. And, to be honest, this might be an expensive route for some people – I have seen simple tube qualification samples that cost $30 each for some alloys.

Aim high, and good luck!

By NWPAwelder (**)

Date 10-26-2014 12:34

I never tested for them but API 1104 is a downhill test. 5g is just a standard bell-hole position. Radiograph would be x-ray. sounds like one of the easier tests out there... depending on grade of pipe and their requirements on the WPS you may run either a 7010 HYP+ or 8010 (usually a G classification)rod...most usually using a 6010 5p+ rod for your bead.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-26-2014 19:03 Edited 10-27-2014 21:47

The only problem is that the test for Con Ed requires the root to be run uphill from what I remember many moons ago... Who knows, they may have changed the WPS so that downhill progression would be allowed... And if I remember correctly, they only used regular 5p then again they might have changed the WPS to accommodate 5p+ also...

I never applied to take that test because I had enough work as a Boilermaker all over the place but I knew that test pretty well due to the fact that when I was the Tech Rep for the largest independent Welding distributor in the NY Metro area back in the eighties, I was frequently at their welding & fabrication school where they would send the applicants to test... So I could clearly notice what type of test they were taking as well as the electrodes that were used also because I was there frequently either installing equipment like some heavy duty plasma cutters like the old PAK 45's as well as all sorts of GMAW/FCAW Lincoln Electric equipment and a few of their CV power sources as well as a few Millers to replace their older Airco units which were also made in Appleton, WI many moons ago...

And even a few manual and mechanized Sub Arc systems also... They also like to purchase quite a few radiagraphs and they loved those Bugo tracked systems to weld long verticals with them as well as horizontal & flat joints too...And did they ever buy a boat load of oxy fuel equipment from us constantly... The company I worked for did make the most of their profits from the Gas cylinders they rented from us because they were constantly losing and misplacing cylinders all over the place! :lol:

And on occasion, a few GTAW power sources like the original Pow Con very portable (for that time) inverter power sources, quite a few MK Goose-neck push-pull wire feeders for their heavy aluminum work and back then they were experimenting on a DC prototype hi power generator that was made out of a whole lot of aluminium, so they required them along with the Pow-con inverters for that project... A few Miller Synchrowaves and whole lot of various accessories for them so, I got to know my way around the plants, and the main Welding school...

During that time I frequented the Con Ed plant in Astoria Queens, NY there was a huge explosion in one of their boilers and it was a really big mess to say the least and after I left that job as a tech rep, a few years later they were still working on repairing that boiler... Actually, they for all intended purposes rebuilt that plant because the damage was so extensive from the initial explosion... And as a Boilermaker again, I got to do some repair work there, and they wanted me to come aboard and work for them as a supervisor but I declined because during those days I had itchy feet, and much preferred to travel instead of settling down to a steady job.. There were a few times when the work was scarce that I cussed at myself for not taking that job but, then the work started picking up and I didn't think about that decision anymore as long as there was steady work which as a boilermaker was dicey at times... :grin:

I can tell you right off the bat that you better not expect to be paid like journeyman mechanic because that's not going to happen or even come close to the going rate... And if I remember correctly back then they weren't a union shop but things might have changed... If you're looking for a steady job with no layoffs then it's a good place to stay at because they don't lay off their mechanics and there's always plenty of work because more than likely and this is dependent on where the work priorities are, they will probably have you working with a crew off a big utility truck traveling all over the city and mostly working on steam lines underground...

You do know that Co Edison is an Electrical Utility Corporation - right? They make a lot of electricity from a majority of very old power plants so there's always going to be maintenance work all over it's grid system... This is one company that has gone through so many changes over the years and has been bought and sold so many times that you'll have hard time keeping track of who owns the majority shares of the company if you stay there for any amount of time...

The one very positive aspect of working with Con Ed is that they will train you to test to as many certs that you can handle and their benefits package was back then one of the best around... I can't say that it's still a good plan because of all of the changes and different ownership and you know what happens with that sort of stuff going on...
If you're starting off as an apprentice it can be a good place to work for if there's union representation there which nowadays is pretty much iffy so, I would have to consider whether or not to work there if there wasn't any... In any event getting back to what you need to expect when you test there, I would practice uphill 6010 as well as downhill because Con ED does things their way, and not the way everybody else does so expect to be thrown a curve ball or two... Heck if you impress them enough, they may ask you to stay and do a super coupon on some 2-3/4" dia. CS pipe with GTAW root and then SMAW E-7018 fill and cap but, more than likely they'll ask you to come back the next day if you take some time to finish the first test...

Anywho, that's about all I can tell you about how Con Ed does operate... If you prepare yourself enough prior to the test, you should do just fine but remember to expect the unexpected with them because they have been known to change things at the last minute... Best of luck to you and don't forget keep yourself hydrated and to BREATHE! :eek:

Respectfully,
Henry

By jarsanb (***)

Date 10-27-2014 14:02

API 1104 can be uphill or downhill. It is typically downhill. But that would be by choice of the user. It is an essential variable for both procedure and welder qualifications. Similar issue for the electrode. EXX10's are common, but not required. Additional testing for different electrode groups (API doesn't use F #'s).

By S J

Date 10-27-2014 17:29

Generally, qualifications to any welding code must be prepared for and completed in accordance with the proper Rev. level of the code, or other technical specifications that are provided by the customer in the purchase order(s). But, a company like Con-Ed (or their contractors) would be likely to have a corporate quality manual (perhaps proprietary) that might govern the training and qualification process.

We must be careful to avoid the confusion that might result from taking both forum questions and forum answers out of context.

The welding process choice is sometimes a heavy hitter. Were the prior successful qualifications completed using the downhill welding progressions completed with an electric arc or gas fuel process??? Then too, besides the material, what thickness range was qualified???

I do not claim to be an expert on API-1104, but there is a good chance that we could make a better call regarding the options available if we saw the words from the proper code and revision level.

The best decision might well be influenced by reviewing actual test results and procedure documentation recorded for proper process control for future projects - but, an open forum is not the best place for a discussion like this to occur.

Here are some possible factors to watch out for:

1.) If a down hill travel progression is attempted, is the fusion adequate???
2.) If short-circuiting GMAW is attempted, is the fusion adequate???
3.) Are impact tests required? Maybe not for API-1104, maybe so for some ASME pipe - but, perhaps not this application,

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-27-2014 21:46

SJ,

Have you ever personally dealt with Con Edison? Because if you haven't then please stop confusing this individual even more than he already is... The bottom line is this... Anyone who wants to test for a position @ Con Edison has to take the test the way Con Edison wants them to take the test - nothing more and nothing less... Why? Because this test is just so the potential employee candidate can make it past this point and continue to go further along in the hiring process... It is their (Con Edison's) own test so, they'll dictate how it is to be taken and if the test taker deviates even slightly different than what was described by the proctor, then the applicant is done with the test and then asked to leave because that applicant just demonstrated that they couldn't follow instructions to the letter...

I have dealt with Con Edison for many years and I know how the folks in there think, the culture, etc.... You don't.... Josephp, go take the test with an open mind and follow their instructions to the letter and you will do just fine... Btw, did you go through the medical exam and the blood work yet? because if you haven't yet eventually you will... Getting hired by Con Edison is going to be a process... They do not hire someone just because they passed a test - oh no... You also need to pass their physical and blood tests... I know of a few candidates who went to apply and aced the practical welding test, did so-so on the written exam and then passed the physical, yet flunked the blood test or visa versa...

Then there were a few that went in for the test and were instructed to take the test according to the instructions given... Instead of following instructions like they were supposed to, they took the test totally different than what was expected of them to produce and for that reason alone, they were sent walking.... Do the test exactly like they want it done because once you get in, the real training starts and you spend time in the school qualifying for real and the sky's the limit... Most important of all... Don't be afraid to ask questions... Because you're going to want clarification if there's something that you're not sure of and the only way to to that is to ask how - CAPECHE? :grin:

Respectfully,
Henry

By S J

Date 10-28-2014 12:51

I'm sorry for causing additional confusion Henry - my bad, and please accept my apology.

Since the OP specifically asked for advice on "how to prepare", I was attempting to offer him a few pointers that some others have perhaps encountered during their travels in the welding industry.

And, other forum participants who posted replies also expressed a few vague pointers.

You advice is perhaps the best, and thank you for correcting me.

But, since he has expressed an interest in "preparing", this raises "questions" in my own mind how this might be accomplished...

You are correct - I am not Con Edison, so his practice or preparation will depend on whether they require him to run an open set-up, or follow a documented procedure that was previously qualified.

And, your advice about employer physicals is wise to heed as well. I am still blessed with mostly good health, and have never failed an employer physical - but I am also aware of some who have. There was even a post at this forum claiming that some employers are firing people for using Jolt or no doze on the job.

I'm not sure what to say about preparing to pass an employer blood or drug test except that a proper water intake before the test is one option that might help - according to Web MD. But, these days some claim that DNA testing on plucked hairs is another method of challenging some people to make wiser choices.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-28-2014 18:40

Good advice regarding the testing SJ... That's okay... Apology accepted although unnecessary... Don't sweat it bud...

I kind of understand why they would fire an employee on that stuff because when I used to teach and that craze of the youngsters taking that stuff was just starting to become rampant, the students on it would one minute be flying high @ 100 mph and as soon as lunch time was done they would return to the classroom tired, worn out, and relatively incoherent for some...

But what struck me most was the contrast in attitudes from being on that stuff where they were at first overconfident and very obnoxious while on it to becoming sleepy, weak and very irritable if ordered to do something once the drugs started to wear off... So it doesn't surprise that this would become an issue for their employers after they graduated and found work... I also remember describing to students who were on that stuff what might happen to them once they were out in the real world working for a living and I guess they can't stand right about now constantly hearing my voice in their heads from those sage words of advice. :eek:

Respectfully,
Henry