Cladding Position

Date 11-25-2014 20:09

J,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

So, you are doing a continuous horizontal surfacing bead to complete the 'inlay' of Inconel? Not a 2G, more like a 2F but really just a surfacing bead. They don't have a letter designation technically. I'll have to do some searching in what codes I have on the computer and see what I can find.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By jholbert23 Date 11-25-2014 20:30

Yes Sir, the part is rotating laying a horizontal surfacing bead. We inlay the I.D. of the box with enough Inconel to cut seal grooves.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 11-25-2014 22:02 Edited 11-26-2014 04:34

That's called Bore welding... Are you cladding or inlaying in the horizontal position (Torch stationary) with the part rotating and depositing weld inside of the pipe like part or is the torch fixture moving in the upward progression each time a completed rotation is completed? And yet you also call it a box? Is it a square or rectangular tubing? Or is it a box type fabrication... And what is the material and it's thickness... Are you monitoring the dilution?

I ask this because the one tends to be horizontal and one would tend to be in the vertical up progression at first yet ending up to be in a horizontal progression also... And I would like to better visualize just what it is you're working with, and what is the purpose of this part may I ask?

I don't see how that can be considered a 2F when there's no joint configuration to justify the weld as a fillet weld... Frankly I can't see the use of any letter designation either, but a number representing the progression of the weld itself can be used without any debate... I'll defer to Brent on what some codes have to say about that question... An interesting question nonetheless. :grin:

Respectfully,
Henry

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 11-25-2014 23:18

No I agree Henry, it is 'closer' only because it would be similar to welding a lap joint with a fillet weld once you come around for a second pass. And I was contrasting that it was closer to a fillet in that regard than a 2G which it is not even close to.

But, it is a 'Surfacing' weld if I remember my terminology correctly but as I am in OR for the holiday I am looking when I am not busy with my folks.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By jholbert23 Date 11-27-2014 02:56

Its inlay and the torch steps up .110" after each pass partially covering previous pass.The weld is built up with 5 to 7 layers then two squared seal grooves are machined The parts are female connections for drilling risers and it's tubing,.500" to 1" thick 4130

By 46.00

Date 11-27-2014 05:23 Edited 11-27-2014 05:35

Lets not forget that 2G,2F,6G etc are all strictly TEST Positions, not actually weld positions. There were never meant to replicate actual work positions! ASME 9 has a weld detail for overlaying welds for testing purpose. I suggest if your weld position does not meet any standard position then you include a verbal description?

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 11-27-2014 13:24

You are correct in stating that number/letter designations are used fir test position referencing...However, I don't see a problem using a number only designation to describe which position is the inlay being deposited... As long as the intent is for describing a production detail, I cannot find anywhere where it states specifically that no number, letter or combination of both number /letter designation is prohibited from being used... And if it is not to be used and is prohibited then please cite where it is specifically referenced as such... And if this is limitation or restriction is documented to a specific code or standard, please cite which is being referenced...

Now, if the person is writing up a WPS or a PQR or any other documentation that is a record for qualification, then it is the practice to use either a number/letter designation or a description of whichever position when none of the letter designation can be used to accurately describe what type of weld/joint configuration is being used to deposit the welds as is the case for this example of the bore welding inlaying application... An uphill or downhill progression should also be included in the paperwork also...

Funny how the OP didn't state to which code or standard is being used for this application... JHolbert23, is there a specific code or standard being used to work from with this application?

Also just out of curiosity when you mentioned inconel, is there a specific alloy grade of inconel being used? An interesting application nonetheless... That is unless it's one that Joel considers as being "boring" How ironic. :eek:

Respectfully,
Henry

By 46.00

Date 11-27-2014 14:26

Inconel overlay is quite common nowadays! As it involves Pipe I used ASME 9, I may well be wrong! ASME 9 makes reference to overlaying welds! From experience, I would guess 625 grade inco?
If a weld position doesn't suit, then there is a SP allowance!

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 11-27-2014 17:01 Edited 11-27-2014 17:04

That is correct, and I would agree that 625 is very popular although, it wasn't the original choice and somewhere in the archived threads is a thread that included the overlay application that I describe below and it describes the development of the process form the trials performed with the use of various alloy combinations until the powers that be settled on If I remember correctly, was Inconel 625 and it was being applied in many power boiler tubing sections as an alternative method of repairing tubing that was starting to have one half of the tubing/pipe circumference's wall thickness thinning below spec... they started doing this in the early eighties and stopped for a while because the efficiencies to be expected were not being materializing so they regrouped and ran quite a few trial runs again until they fine tuned it enough to their satisfaction and have been applying this form life extension for quite some time now... If one decides to look up the thread that has more detail in the application can do so by typing in the word: "Uhlig" in the bar of the search function here...

They would prolong the use of the same tubing/pipe via weld overlaying instead of going through the drawn out process of cutting out all og the tubing in sections and then the tedious, time consuming task of having to individually weld each and every tubing/pipe back to the existing water-wall or super-heater tubing/piping... And it did save time but this could only be accomplished with some very serious project management and logistics involved or else it would end up being a terrible lesson in the futility of poor planning and coordination with everyone in the team performing the work...

What is very common in ASME Section IX overlay welding applications is the overlaying of water-walls and super-heater tubing for fossil fuel power boilers with the cladding being deposited on the O.D. of the tubing or pipe...It's an alternative to completely replacing whole sections of water-wall tubing that's only slightly less than the specified wall thickness, yet thick enough that an overlaying of Inconel will not cause damage by controlling dilution enough via heat input control which will also maintain the metallurgical properties necessary in order for the water-wall tubing or even the super-heater tubing or piping... A less invasive method of repair that can only be done after the wall thickness of the tubes in question are checked and mapped out to insure they don't do any unnecessary welding that will end up having to be prematurely replaced... The application in this thread is not as common as the overlaying of the boiler tubing although it is common to a lesser degree...

Ummm, isn't the part in the shape of a box according to the OP's second post: "We inlay the I.D. of the box with enough Inconel to cut seal grooves." Even though in his first or initial post, Jholbert23 describes the part as being:"All we are doing is inlaying Inconel inside a pipe like part,?" I'm curious of the part and what type of metal it's made of. :roll:

Respectfully,
Henry

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 11-27-2014 20:20

I'm curious as well. He has described it as "vertical position rotating", and "tubing", and "pipe like", and "box", and "as the part turns a bead is laid down". So, a turning part with weld being applied sounds round to me. As well as pipe like, rotating, and tubing (which can be round or square). But, box?

And then 7 layers to get it thick enough to cut the grooves? How about a different process? Seems like this could be done more efficiently.

He Is in Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By Joey

Date 11-28-2014 07:07

Overlay can be on the inside or outside of pipe.

The confusion in OP is the upward (uphill) progression, otherwise the position is simply 2G.

The welding position is significant for you to know the location of test specimens removal.

46 you mentioned "Lets not forget that 2G,2F,6G etc are all strictly TEST Positions, not actually weld positions.

what about if I say "position of weld is "horizontal" for test position 2G ------ :smile:

is it the same? :roll:

By 46.00

Date 11-28-2014 15:28

Joey, you have read ASME 9 lol

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 11-27-2014 05:26

Hopefully this will be close enough to let you find it: check out section 12 of A2.4 Welding Symbols. The edition on my computer is older but should be close to the same location. What you are doing should be a surfacing weld to accomplish build up of the material. You are in the 2 or horizontal position. But, there is no letter designation for that weld. 'F' is for Fillets and 'G' is for Groove but not all welds have letter designations. The specifics for how to call out the dimensions are in section 12. See also Figures 15-C and 30-C. Also called buildup, buttering, cladding, or hardfacing.

A picture would help clarify but this would be my opinion based upon details supplied thus far.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By kcd616