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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / SWPs and B2.1 Procedure qualification
- - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-24-2016 15:27
Looking through B2.1 and trying to get started developing a procedure to GTAW weld (P-8 to P-8) 3/4"dia. sch 40 316 pipe to 3/4"dia. sch 40 316 pipe, it seems tough trying to figure out what is exactly required to get started. This specification doesn't make as much sense to me as D1.1 in determining what test is required to qualify the procedure. I know that I'm pretty thick headed but after reading through Clause 4, it appears the easy/least expensive way for this customer is going to be to use one of the SWPs just to get them through making a couple of welds. They may never use this again after this little job.

Like this one:
https://pubs.aws.org/p/1075/b21-8-2122001r2012-standard-welding-procedure-specification-swps-for-gas-tungsten-arc-welding-of-austenitic-stainless-steel-m-8p-8s-8-group-1-116-through-1-12-inch-thick-er3xx-as-welded-condition
What do you guys think?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-24-2016 18:36
I don't have as much heartburn with SWPS as some do :)

The SWPS can be approved by the Engineer for compliance and then more strict work instructions can be produced for the welders to use in production.

The variables can be made as tight as you like, and communicated to the welders in any format you choose, as long as they stay within the SWPS ranges.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-24-2016 20:46
I'm headed to their shop tomorrow to work with the welders and work on welder quals. No engineer to ask, no one to consult about a code to work to...see my other post regarding this situation. The sWPS does save money in this situation, and time...sadly my billable rate is probably going to be more than their entire scope of work, so keeping my time off the clock is a bonus for them. At least they will have a WPS in hand for any future jobs that will fit within those variables and welders qualified to weld.
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 02-25-2016 10:58
One advantage of qualifying a procedure over purchasing one may be the wider range of customization that can be within the document vs using the SWPS as is.  If you are just using the procedure for "qualification" then it very well may be the way to go.

For procedure qualification per Sec IX and B2.1, they could qualify the procedure on a pc of 3/16" or 1/4" plate, cut bends and tensiles, do the bends in house, get the tensiles machined locally ($60-$100), and send the tensiles to be pulled ($60-$100). So that coupled with your rate would exceed the cost of an SWPS. However the value may not. I am a firm believer in the"...teach a man to fish..." idea though it probably doesn't go well with my boss sometimes.

A thought, one other thing I always stress to organizations wanting their welders "certified" is that if they are performing a job in which the requirement for welder performance qualification is referenced, often within the project specifications there are more requirements to compliance than just testing the welders. Some understand a drawing note such as 1. All welding shall be performed in accordance with xxx and welders shall be currently qualified in accordance with xxx. to mean just "I need the magical mystical all knowing "CERTIFIED WELDER" to make sure everything in the welding world is good.

If the likelihood is high that this is a one time deal, the SWPS may be the way to go.

Have a great day.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-24-2016 19:31
What welding standard are you working with? Why are you using B2.1?

B2.1 is pretty much a copy of ASME Section IX with a little more detail on the welding variables.

Not all standards accept SWPSs, and of those that do, i.e., D1.1, D1.6, prequalified WPSs can often be used. ASME Section IX may indicate SWPSs can be used, but only select ones and one must review the ASME construction code to verify they are permitted. If a SWPS is used for an ASME job, no changes can be made, the SWPS must be used "as is" and they cannot be combined.

John, approach B2.1 as you would D1.1 or ASME.

Write a preliminary WPS defining what you want the welder to weld.

Record exactly what was done while the welder welded the test assembly on the PQR. Record the test results and verify the test results are as required by the standard.

Write the WPS based on the values recorded in the PQR. Remember, B2.1 is based on ASME, so variables such as voltage, amperage, etc. may not be required to be recorded.  A smart inspect adds those variables to the PQR form and records the additional data.

Using the tabular format found in B2.1, those variables with a "Q" apply to all procedures. Those variables with a "T" must be addressed when toughness is a requirement. Its a piece of cake!

SWPS - Ahhhhhhhh!

Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-24-2016 20:37
Thanks for the replies guys.

Al, no standard or code invoked, no toughness requirements. A guy had a customer come into his shop and said here weld this for me. The shop foreman gave me a call to come help him with writing a procedure so he can show the customer what they plan to do and how they will do it. B2.1 just seemed better suited than anything in the D1 group since it dealt with GTAW welding a couple joints of small dia. SS pipe. Once I got in there it gave a flow chart (Fig 4.1) and I discovered that there was a SWPs already written for a P8 to P8 in the thickness range they needed. I D/L'd the SWPs and it looks like it will fit the job and save this small shop some time and money developing a procedure, and the time to send and get results from a lab.

I guess what confused me was the lack of details and configurations in Clause 4 showing what needs to be tested to qualify a 3/4" dia. pipe. The parts are so small that there isn't much material to cut samples out of like with D1.1 where you have long plates to cut samples from for the various tests and D1.1 details the plate out with dimensions and where the sample need to be cut from. The only thing it(Fig 4.2) mentions is that you use a weldments large enough to provide the necessary test specimens...obviously 3/4" dia less than 1/8" thick doesn't leave much material for anything other than macros. I did notice over in the Welder's Performance Clauses (B2.1 Clause 5) there are some better details showing what needs to be done to qualify the welders.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-25-2016 04:42
Go with D1.6 and it is prequalified.

Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / SWPs and B2.1 Procedure qualification

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