Welder Qualified in groove plate...but what about tacks?

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 12:50 Edited 03-24-2016 12:52

A tack is just a short fillet :grin:

see 5.18
However, if the tacks are to remain(outside of the final weld), they need to be inspected per Table 6.1.
...if they will be re-melted into the final weld, use your best judgment.

By Bowler_Hat (**)

Date 03-24-2016 13:16

5.18 is Camber in Built-Up Members

Not sure how that applies...

All of our tacks here are incorporated into the final weld...and calling the tacks a fillet, may be how most industries get by with one less welder qualification test.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 16:21

John should have specified, he was looking at D1.1:2010. In the D1.1 (Farm Code): 2015 it is 5.17.

I cringed at the 'tack welds are just fillet welds' myself. In over 90% of the parts tacked that is probably true, but, not always and not according to A3.0 Terms and Defs. They can just as easily be the root of a groove weld.

But, look at the tack welding qualification test.

Brent

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 17:49

Yes, D1.1:2010, can't bring myself to buy a book that endorses welding over questionable materials that may be injurious to the weld being deposited.

Wait a minute guys, so you are saying that if a fella has qualified on a 1" groove test on plate and passed that he isn't qualified to tack the pieces together before welding out the next production joint without first passing a tack welder's test?

:eek:

I hate to admit this, but I have never given a tack welder's qualification test to any of the hundreds of production welders that I tested. I gave a 2G 1" plate test in a couple processes and put them to work.

I read Note "b" in Table 4.12, and sure enough it doesn't mention "also qualifies for Tack welding".

I suppose I will have to start giving a tack welding test to my qualified welders, sounds awfully redundant though.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 17:57

"I cringed at the 'tack welds are just fillet welds' myself."-Brent

To qualify, the tack welder has to place a 1/4" "tack weld" 2" long(4.20.2)...sounds a lot to me like they are placing a 1/4" fillet weld that is 2" long in length. A welder passing a 2G test on 1" plate is also qualified to place fillet welds(Table 4.10)(Table 4.11 (1) Note "d")

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 18:41

It doesn't really clarify but I don't believe you have to have a Groove weld cert to tack weld grooves. The tack welder cert should qualify to tack weld, period.. :confused:

But, the way your comment read I just had to add a response. And, yes, ANY welder qualified for groove welds is qualified to weld fillets or grooves in any position though I am liking Al and Lawrence's testing option more and more.

Position qualification for tack welding vs welder. Doesn't the tack welder have to qualify in any position they are going to tack in? So 4 tests for all position? Can't remember and am about to leave for the valley for my night time job. Have to come back to this later.

Brent

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 20:32

Yes, a test for each position is required for tack welders.

I never saw any benefit to qualify just for tack welding or just fillet welds....maybe other shops have entry positions where they could justify using personnel to only place tack welds.

We needed actual welders and fitters, both were qualified in 2G on 1" plate and with every process we used in the shop. Both worked together on tables together...when the main member hit the table, the fitter made up a materials list and the welder gathered / grind up materials while the fitter laid out the main member, both fit the piece up together, and then had the dimns checked....then both welded up the piece and rinse/repeat as often as necessary.

I can't imagine that a fella that only tack welds would be of much benefit in a shop like that.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 22:15

On the other hand, there are excellent fitters that can't or won't weld worth beans when it comes to production structural members. A good fitter can usually keep two or three welders busy most of the time. So, you have 3-4 men accomplishing what it would take four at least to do in your scenario.

True, 2 can weld out faster than 1, if handled correctly and they don't flash each other. And, there are parts that really need 2 people to fit not just 1. It all depends upon what has proven to work for various companies. And, you will always have a plant manager who has a 30 year old 'always done it that way' attitude and won't even consider trying other approaches.

Thanks for clarifying the 'every position' comment I posted before. I thought so but didn't have time to look it up.

Brent

By Superflux (****)

Date 03-24-2016 22:27

Sometimes I've seen large facilities where if a laborer can pass the tack test then he gets moved out of the broom closet or dung heap into the weld shop. They get to put down the mop and/or shovel and move up in pay, working conditions and social status. This way on the weekends, when they are trying to pick-up on the hot chicks, it sounds a lot better to tell the Ladies, that "Yeah, I'm a welder down at Miller Tool and Die" rather than "I swab the krappers and shovel grit media into the dumpster".

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-24-2016 17:58

Sorry, yes Brent was right I ref'd D1.1:2010

By Miguel Banda Date 03-29-2016 14:59

Hello everyone I'm new at this , and not if the question goes here ,
I have some doubts about D14.4 because they only have table for thickness qualifications for groves welds with Complete joint penetration (table 13) and fillet welds (table 14), but i dont find the table for the thickness for partial Joint penetration.
Do you know, wich table its for PJP qualification.

thanks